[FMG] [TTRPG] Pathfinder 2e, D&D 5e muscle growth subsystem

[Jarhead300099]

I don't know where to put this, and since TTRPGs tend to be collaborative storytelling, I guess this is as good a place as any...

I have a series of mechanics I've been playing around with wherein you can develop monstrously muscular women in TTRPGs of various degrees. I wanted to also expand on that and perhaps write a series of short adventures (or perhaps even longer form ones) if I had enough interest in them using these mechanics so you guys can maybe see a proof of concept version of that. Who knows, maybe some of you will actually use it in a game or two for real!

I don't know though... lemme know if you guys are interested in seeing something like that

[Jarhead300099]

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[jhunter]

Sounds interesting. Would be interesting in hearing more.

[Jarhead300099]

FOREWORD
If you were one of the nearly 1000 people to view my post before this, you may have noticed that I mentioned D&D5e in the title. I've since gone against that, and decided I preferred pf2e for my power fantasy supplement that no one will use, so for the duration of this "little" project of mine, I'm going to be focusing on PF2e as the base system. The advantage is that all of the rules for that game can be found at the Archives of Nethys (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login) all in one spot. It's a much more granular system and I feel like I can make a more robust FMG subsystem using Pf2e, so that's what I'll do!

Anyways, a lot of this is inspired by the pf1e mythic system and I'll be stealing a bit of the terminology used there, but the intention is much more kinky in nature



OBJECTIVE and MISSION STATEMENT
To create for Pathfinder Second Edition (pf2e) a variant rule system for female muscle growth (fmg) in which female characters of any ancestry, background, heritage, or class, can grow large, powerful, bodybuilder-like muscles. I want a system in which, through progression of the game as normal, your character grows in power and strength, allowing for the ultimate fmg fantasy in a tolkien-esque world. To that end, I will be implementing rules for muscle growth, flavor to tie mechanical ability scores with some semblance of physicality, and a general progression to give your female character the ultimate muscle size and appearance! There will be three different levels of muscle growth for those who want to play in a Female Muscle Growth Lite, Super, and Hyper mode of play! None of these modes will be particularly well balanced, but some will be better balanced than others haha. This is for those power-fantasies we all love.

To help expedite the process, I will assume everyone reading this is semi-familiar with TTRPGs and especially PF2e. If you're more familiar with D&D5e, don't worry, it's a very similar system with a bit more granularity and crunch. But going forward, I'll be talking about the pf2e system assuming you know the basics. If not, feel free to ask, and I'll answer/explain in the comments... don't worry, I'm real friendly!

Eventually, I'll be compiling all of this into a tool that will make everything look nice and fancy and hopefully that will be something I can do soon, but for now, I just want to get the basics out of the way and see if there is any interest.



GENERAL NOTES
The following notes will be applicable to all following modes of pf2e fmg regardless of intensity. They define or redefine certain key terms that will be used throughout the project unless otherwise stated. For example, no ability score may begin higher than 18, but this is not true for Str in goddess mode.

• Ability Boosts do not Overlap - Only one boost may be taken at each stage. For example, boosts provided by your ancestry are considered "one stage" and the boosts provided by your background are considered another. Boosts from your ancestry cannot overlap (meaning you cannot boost Con twice due to your ancestry), but you can boost Con again when you move on to boosts from your background.
• Physical and Mental Scores - Normally, physical ability scores are considered to be Str, Dex, and Con, while mental ability scores are considered to be Int, Wis, and Cha. When playing with fmg rules, Cha is considered both a physical and mental ability score. In this case, Charisma will represent a character's beauty or sexual appeal to characters that may be sexually attracted to women. Whenever an ability boost refers to a physical score, it also refers to Charisma
• Starting Limits - No ability score may start above 18 at level 1 as normal.
• Variant Rules Encouraged - Play with the Ancestral Paragon, Dual Class, and/or Free Archetype variant rules from the GMG are strongly encouraged, but not required. Keep in mind there will already be a significant increase in player power due to these fmg rules, so only add these if you really want a powerful player character.
• Female Exclusive - As the name fmg suggests, only female characters may engage in these rules, though a GM may chose to apply them to a male as well. These rulesets will always assume a female player character however.

DIFFERENT MODES OF PLAY
I'm not exactly sure how to implement this just yet, but I'm thinking of doing something along the lines of Lite, Super, and Hyper mode where each gets progressively more powerful. I don't want it to just be a bunch of ability boosts of various degrees, but have their own abilities and feel. For example, characters using FMG Lite should have a slight bump in power vs the normal power curve, but Hyper mode should eventually make you feel almost invincible. At the end of the day though, this is still a game, and playing with godmode on from the beginning will get boring, so the emphasis will always be on the GROWTH part of FMG. Here's what I have so far:

FMG LITE

• A boost to Str at levels 3, 8, 13, and 18, and then a boost to 4 abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20 which can also include Str. This doubles the number of boosts to Str and can lead to a solid +3 ish to Str based charactes. Not bad.
• Certain feats or free including, but not limited to, Toughness, Diehard, and Fleet. These are incredibly useful and physically powerful feats for any good muscle goddess.
• Maybe a power or two from Goddess Rules that I'll introduce later
• Play with Free Archetype is required here

FMG SUPER

• Many more boosts with a bigger emphasis on physical and mental scores.
• Certain feats or free including, but not limited to, Toughness, Diehard, and Fleet. These are incredibly useful and physically powerful feats for any good muscle goddess.
• A few more powers form the aforementioned Goddess Rules that I'm working on.
• Play with Free Archetype and Ancestral Paragon is required here

FMG SUPER

• A boos to Str at every level, and one that stacks with other crazy boosts here. A Str of 60 should be the max in this mode and it's kinda bonkers.
• Full use of the Goddess Ruleset is implemented
• Play with Free Archetype, Dual Class, and Ancestral Paragon is required here

What do you guys think? Should I keep going? I have the progression for the ability scores down, and I already have a system in place or making the pf1e mythic system more in-line with pf2e's design philosophy. I just want to know if anyone is interested before I keep going and put even more effort into this...

[jhunter]

Hm. Interesting concept. My recommendation would be to run two games. One where you implement your game ideas for just the plaets, and another with your ideas on both enemies and good guys. See if there is any tweaks that are needed.

[Jarhead300099]

Hm. Interesting concept. My recommendation would be to run two games. One where you implement your game ideas for just the plaets, and another with your ideas on both enemies and good guys. See if there is any tweaks that are needed.

Interesting idea. I suppose I could run a few sessions without any enhanced enemies. We'll see. Right now I'm still working on the basics and I need a general term for these girls... Apex? Goddesses? I don't like just stealing Mythic as a title, and FMG isn't a title

[jhunter]

Maybe Blessed or Rewarded.

[Jarhead300099]

NEW UPDATE!

I've been working diligently, and I'm still in the early stages, but I'm liking what I'm making so far...

I've decided on calling the system and characters "Supreme". They Ascend into FMG via a list of catalysts, progress through six Divine Paths, draw upon their well of Apex Power to use Supreme abilities, and eventually progress to Divinity.

The Paths are:
- Warlord Goddess (Strength based)
- Trickster Goddess (Dexterity based)
- Guardian Goddess (Constitution based)
- Archmage Goddess (Intelligence based)
- Heirophant Goddess (Wisdom based)
- Fertility Goddess (Charisma based)

Each Path gets a Path Feat (I want to aim for 3ish per level) at even levels (total of 180 feats!!), and a Path Ability at odd levels (60 abilities!!).

I want to include some female muscle related items. Obvious ones include a barbell staff, chainmail bikini, or some sort of FMG serum or something, but I'm not sure what else to include here. Haven't focused on this part of the game much yet.

I also want to add more powerful spells. Supreme versions of spells to make them world-breaking. I also want to include some new spells like a muscle inflation spell to temporarily boost strength, or enhance beauty.

I also have debated it, but I think a few FMG based monsters would be fun for a challenge, but most enemies would be normal ones for that power fantasy feel.

Lastly, there will be a section with flavor text describing examples of how muscular each woman appears, but this is obviously to taste.

What do you guys think? Should I keep going?

[Kek]

Yes keep going

[Jarhead300099]

Hey all, I know it's been a minute, but I've been very busy trying to advance my professional career so that I can spend more time doing stuff I love (fingers crossed that actually happens haha)

Anyways, just to prove that I've been working on this, here's a few magical items to supplement your FMG games!

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Posing Suit                                                 Item 12
Uncommon, Emotion, Enchantment, Invested, Magical
Usage worn clothing
Price 1950 gp
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This rhinestone-bedazzled bikini comes with matching bracelets, earings, and necklace. The suit allows you to cast the Prestidigitation cantrip as an occult innate spell at will. When worn, the suit glitters with a rainbow of colors designed to entice and capture an audience which grants a +2 item bonus to all Performance checks.
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Activate [2-actions] envision, Interact
Frequency once per day
Effect you strike a pose, showing off your thick, powerful, pumped-up muscles and gain the effects of Enthrall with a duration equal to your performance or 1 minute, whichever comes first. If you're also wearing Posing Shoes you can activate this ability twice per day.

Posing Suit (Greater)                                  Item 18
Price 17500 gp
The boots grant a +3 bonus. If you're wearing Posing Shoes (Greater) you can instead gain the effects of an 8th-level Favorable Review except it targets all creatures in range, and whenever they critically fail, they get a failure instead

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Posing Shoes                                                 Item 10
Uncommon, Invested, Magical, Transmutation
Usage worn shoes
Price 1250 gp
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These 4-inch high-heeled shoes are made of a sturdy, translucent material which enhance any efforts to show off your body. When worn, the shoes tighten your leg muscles and add to your height, granting you a +2 item bonus to Acrobatics checks.
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Activate [free] envision
Frequency once per hour
Effect Until the end of your turn, you ignore difficult terrain when moving on the ground. If you're wearing a Posing Suit, you also gain a +5-foot status bonus to your land Speed until the end of your turn.

Posing Shoes (Greater)                                  Item 16
Price 8750 gp
These shoes are taller than their lesser counterparts measuring in at 6-inch tall. Additionally the bonus increases to a +3 item bonus, and these shoes constantly grant the effects of Jump.

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Scale Mail Bikini                                           Item 7
Rare, Abjuration, Comfort, Enchantment, Invested, Magical
Usage worn armor; Bulk L
Price 550 gp
-------------
Provocatively designed to distract opponents, this chainmail bikini covers only the minimal basics in order to preserve modesty. This +1 bikini is made of fine quality scale mail, carefully lined with the softest fabrics available. While wearing scalemail bikini, you gain an item bonus to charisma-based skill checks equal to one greater than its potency rune. For example, a +1 scalemail bikini bestows a +2 item bonus to all charisma-based checks.
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Activate [2-actions] command, envision
Frequency once per day
Effect the armor empowers you to cast a 2nd-level Charm spell (DC 20)

Scale Mail Bikini (Greater)                          Item 13
Price 1600 gp
The armor is a +2 resilient bikini and the Charm spell is a 5th-level spell (DC 28)

Scale Mail Bikini (Major)                             Item 20
Price 24,400 gp
The armor is a +3 greater resilient bikini and the Charm spell is an 8th-level spell (DC 38)

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Weighted Barbell                                      Item 12
Rare, Evocation, Forceful, Magical, Parry, Reach, Sweep
Usage held in 2 hands; Bulk 4
Price 2400 gp
Requirements Strength 20
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This heavy metal bo staff doubles as the base for loading up with weights and exercising with it. Because it is made of heavy metal instead of wood, this +2 greater striking Crushing carries momentum with every swing. It loses the Trip trait, but gainst the Forceful trait.

You can spend an hour exercising with this barbell exerting yourself, getting pumped and fueling your muscles. When you do so, you become fatigued, but gain a +2 status bonus to Athletics checks for the next 2 hours, after which the pump subsides.
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Special If you do not have the required strength score, you cannot use this barbell as a weapon, though you can still use it to exercise with.



Anyways, that's it for now. Let me know what you think about these items for now, and if I could improve them somehow. I'm also open to any suggestions for other fun items to work with

Cheers!

[jhunter]

Looking great so far, I look forward to more!

[Jarhead300099]

So since my last update, my computer crashed and I lost all my data. Luckily I'm back on the grind and trying to get back to where I've been. I'll try to make it system agnostic, but I think for the time being I'll simplify, and release a pf2e/5e copy of the rules when I compile them.

In the meantime, I need some assistance. I'm trying to establish a workout mechanic for the subsystem, and here's what I've got so far (pf2e only for now):

WORKING OUT:

You have been divinely blessed with a supernatural ability to build muscle and grow stronger. You can attempt to gain bonuses to your strength attribute modifier equal to your Muscle Level which are in addition to any other attribute boosts you might normally achieve. To do this requires meeting workout point thresholds and advancing your Muscle Level. Your Muscle Level represents the amount of muscle you've gained, and is equal to your STR bonus. It is independent from, and can never exceed, your character level.

Each day of adventuring automatically adds 1 workout point. Days of downtime activities such as Travel, Shopping, Crafting, or the like, are not sufficiently strenuous for physical hypertrophy and muscle growth.

Adventuring includes days where a combat encounter occurred, putting physical strain on your muscles. Thus, as you adventure, fight monsters, and strain your muscles this way, you will naturally grow in muscular size and strength over time. If you focus on hypertrophy in the gym, however, you can considerably speed this process up. You can spend a day of downtime to add more workout points by performing the workout downtime activity.

-----------------

WORKOUT (downtime activity)
<b>Cost</b> - 3 protein rich rations or equivalent amount of food; access to a gym with weights of appropriate level
<b>Effect</b> - You spend your downtime heavily working out and eating a protein-rich diet to maximize strength gains and muscular hypertrophy. Attempt a Muscle Growth Lore check against a Hard DC for your Muscle Level. Your workout dice are equal to your class HP. For example, a fighter would roll a d10, while a wizard would roll a d6.

• <b>Critical Success</b> - You achieve better than normal results in your lifts causing your muscles to grow much bigger and stronger! Roll double the dice.
• <b>Success</b> - you've successfully strained your muscles to the point where they can grow. Roll your workout dice as normal.
• <b>Failure</b> - You work harder, but your form is off and you need to try again to achieve measurable results.
• <b>Critical Failure</b> - You injure yourself while working out and become Clumsy 2 until you can properly recover. You cannot workout until after you've succeeded at a Hard DC medicine check for your Muscle Level which takes a full day of resting. You are still fatigued the day after recovering from your injury. The day spent recovering also costs you a workout point.

Regardless of the result, you're fatigued the next day. If you spend more than a day without working out or adventuring, however, you lose a cumulative number of workout points increasing by 1 each day you don't work out or adventure.

------------------------------

Workout points needed to advance muscle level:

Muscle Level --> Workout Points needed
0 --> default (normally unaltered character)
1 --> 3
2 --> 7
3 --> 14
4 --> 25
5 --> 42
6 --> 57
7 --> 72
8 --> 91
9 --> 111
10 --> 131
11 --> 151
12 --> 171
13 --> 191
14 --> 211
15 --> 231
16 --> 251
17 --> 271
18 --> 292
19 --> 311
20 --> 331

-------------------------------

For a tangible example, let's say adventurer May is out and about. She's a sprightly little level 1 Ranger and wants to get stronger for her adventures ahead. She's already been adventuring and killing monsters for 2 days straight now, so she already has 2 Workout Points. Just by adventuring she's already close to gaining her first Muscle Level and that much closer to getting a bonus to her Strength Attribute modifier. But she wants to get stronger, faster. So she finds a gym and decides to pump some iron. Thankfully, she's Trained in Muscle Growth Lore and attempts a DC 17 check.

She has a +5 bonus to her Muscle Growth Lore check, and spends the whole day working out, eating plenty of food, and rolls..... a 22! Not too shabby. That's a success! So she gets to roll her workout dice. Since she's a Ranger, she uses a d10 and rolls.... a 6! Just above average, and that brings her Workout Points to 8.

She only needs 7 Workout Points to advance to Muscle Level 2, but because her character level is only 1, she maxes out at Muscle Level 1. She still retains her remaining Workout Points though, and if she levels up before gaining more Workout Points, she will automatically gain her second Muscle Level.

-------------------------

So hopefully that makes sense and works as intended. But back to my request for assistance. What I need help is deciding a gym upgrade system. I want to add a way for players/GMs to have a base camp or a hub town or whatever with a gym they can customize and upgrade. To that end, they'll need ways to improve their gym and give them tangible benefits to improving their muscle growth journey!

Ideas I have so far:
- Heavier Dumbbells: they would add extra dice for when you roll your Workout Points (2d10, 3d10, etc)
- Treadmill/Track: add a bonus to your speed for the next day
- Posing Mirror:
- Bench: can add Str mod to the amount you gain from Workout rolls (2d10+Str, etc)

But I want more than that. Any suggestions? I can fiddle with the balance on my own, unless you've got ideas, but any inspiration is helpful. Even just mentioning the equipment and possible area of concern one might benefit from them could help!

Thanks, and hopefully I get the next update before 2026!!

[GreatJustice]

Just a few silly ideas:

I think there's a bit of fun to be had with the add/omit side of character management. You could make it so that every time you're in combat, and you have enough points, you can use a special action on a creature with a rating higher than your level.

If you win the contest, you hulk out enough to attain the next level of strength immediately - dealing damage equal to your strength points used to whatever you're in contest with, and rendering them prone. If you have enough points you can try this twice, but you suffer a penalty to the roll and take a fatigue level (or equivalent, I'm not super familiar with PF2e).

Something else interesting also happens:

If you go up two levels in an encounter you lose an armour item until it can be repaired. You get to pick which item you grow out of. Further, you can use the pump buff you described earlier.

In addition, some levels of muscle growth (initially every three, then every two, then every one etc) will automatically break an armour piece, so the heroine might end up going from practically fully clothed to practically nude in one encounter. Might even naturally lead to a situation where at certain sizes and above, there is the somewhat reasonable trope of the character always going topless, more from necessity than anything else!

There might also be some value or fun in gradually turning some of the effect of the muscle supercharging into negative consequences: like, once you start getting up in muscle levels you begin to have negative modifiers applied to checks for handling delicate items, or your character goes from taking up one square on the map to four, improving reach, but meaning that more enemies at once can attack them, and limiting progress down narrow corridors without constant successful (and environmentally damaging) strength/muscle checks.

Finally, with respect to your thoughts on the different growth rates, you could have a set of feats that correspond to columns on the table you've set out. There would be three (or four, or however many) columns with different rates of muscle effect enhancement and your first feat would put you in column 1 (slowest and least) but taking the next feat, or consuming an item which granted the same effect would move the character over to column 2 at exactly the same row already attained ... along with an immediate surge in muscle growth as they 'unlock their potential'. Gives the GM and the players the opportunity to throttle the game up and down as they want and maybe even make some elements of the muscle growth side related to a plot quest or something.

Regardless, just my two cents - hope the project is going well!

[Jarhead300099]

I'm glad you're interested! And thanks for the reply! Let me try to break things down, one by one...

I think there's a bit of fun to be had with the add/omit side of character management. You could make it so that every time you're in combat, and you have enough points, you can use a special action on a creature with a rating higher than your level.

I have been toying with the idea of new Spells that do stuff like this, actually! One Spell idea I had was Siphon, a spell which drains strength from the target and grants it to the caster. In my game I'm planning, it would initially be used against the players, but then they'd get a chance to learn it and use it themselves!

I also went through every pf2e and 5e Spell, selected the ones that I could find that seemed to affect the body somehow, and modified it to fit the theme of growing and shrinking!

(or equivalent, I'm not super familiar with PF2e).

Yeeeeaaaa, I have the unfortunate situation of choosing between what is popular (5e, and by a VERY big margin too), or what is mechanically more freeing (pf2e). Like, in 5e, most things boil down to various flavors of (dis)advantage or maybe a tiny modifier. Being prone, for example, gives your enemies advantage on melee attack rolls against you, but if you're invisible, they have disadvantage (assuming they can even target you somehow without negating the effects of Invisibility) and the two cancel out, making it a normal hit. In pf2e you take a -2 to your AC, and if you're invisible on top of that, the attacker must find you with Perception checks, beat a DC 11 flat check (d20 unmodified), and then can attack you with effectively +2 to the roll. It just feels more dynamic and exciting to me because there's more going on.

I do recognize there's a much, much, much higher demand for 5e though, so once I have the pf2e mechanics down, I'll crank out the 5e mechanics too. I'll just have more fun with the pf2e things first hahaha 😅

If you go up two levels in an encounter you lose an armour item until it can be repaired. You get to pick which item you grow out of. Further, you can use the pump buff you described earlier.

I think in both pf2e and 5e, Armor is just Armor, I'm not sure there are parts to them. I did think of adding an extra stat to most armors though called strength cap. When you meet the strength cap, your Armor would break, but not be destroyed, requiring repairs to restitch/reforge back together. And if you exceed a certain threshold, it would be destroyed utterly, falling in rags, or pieces, into the ground. This would consider the growth Spells I mentioned earlier so it could add a bit of risk/reward to using those Spells too!

I'm glad you came up with this concept too because I was most nervous about it hahaha 😆

There might also be some value or fun in gradually turning some of the effect of the muscle supercharging into negative consequences: like, once you start getting up in muscle levels you begin to have negative modifiers applied to checks for handling delicate items, or your character goes from taking up one square on the map to four, improving reach, but meaning that more enemies at once can attack them, and limiting progress down narrow corridors without constant successful (and environmentally damaging) strength/muscle checks.

I'm not sure if there's a similar condition in 5e, I think it's just called Dex damage, but in pf2e, it's called Clumsy. Effectively its just that; you take a penalty to all dex-related checks. I could definitely try to implement something like that.

Maybe one of the gym equipment/upgrades is a simple yoga mat/stretching area that grants a reduction in the Clumsy penalty? Maybe the Clumsy condition continues to climb back up each day you don't stretch or something? Idk, maybe that's too much micromanagement.

Another approach might be to add a feat called nimble or flexible or something, that takes into account your Acrobatics and uses that to represent your flexibility 🤔

Oh oh oh oh! How about this! The max strength modifier naturally in the game is +7 (with magic items and all that; in 5e I think it's 20 naturally, 30 with items and magic). But in my Muscle Level system, you could be adding +20 to that modifier just by leveling up. So without doing any calculations to try and find the balance, what if every +7 bestows Clumsy 1. So if you find yourself at +8 str early on (possible as early as level 4), you become Clumsy 1. At str +14 it would be Clumsy 2, etc

Hmmmm.... OK let's do something quick....

I think in my system, the max strength bonus will be +25, and if +0 to +7 is free, then I can divide the leftover +18. I think maybe +4 thresholds work in that case? So it would be

+0 --> +7 no Clumsy
+8 --> +12 Clumsy 1
+13 --> +16 Clumsy 2
+17 --> +20 Clumsy 3
+21 --> +24 Clumsy 4
+25 --> Clumsy 5

In pf2e, you can be either trained, expert, master, or legendary in a skill, so I think being one of those proficiencies would easily reduce your Clumsy value by that much. This would also mean max str heroines would always be at least Clumsy 1 and I think that's fair. +25 corresponds to a strength score of 60 in 5e so it better come with some drawbacks hahaha

Finally, with respect to your thoughts on the different growth rates, you could have a set of feats that correspond to columns on the table you've set out. There would be three (or four, or however many) columns with different rates of muscle effect enhancement and your first feat would put you in column 1 (slowest and least) but taking the next feat, or consuming an item which granted the same effect would move the character over to column 2 at exactly the same row already attained ... along with an immediate surge in muscle growth as they 'unlock their potential'. Gives the GM and the players the opportunity to throttle the game up and down as they want and maybe even make some elements of the muscle growth side related to a plot quest

Oooooo I like the idea is immediate surges in growth. Especially later on, the growth requirements can be pretty daunting. I've run through a sample adventure, and they'd have to do a lot of adventuring days or sessions in the gym which is fine. I don't want them to be getting so much strength so quickly, but I think it does slow down just a smidge at the highest levels of play (like levels 15+)

I was hoping gym upgrades would help here (hence the origin of the update), but maybe at that level a Muscle Growth potion would be a good idea.

Hmmmmm.... I don't want it to be an instant next Muscle Level thing, since the level requirements are so different, and what if you're only 4 or 5 away from the next tier of 20, you would save it and wait and maybe forget.

I'm thinking along the lines of the potions being a free d8+8 or something of muscle growth. Maybe a bit more? Maybe 2d12? 4d6? I'll have to run some simulations, and maybe add varying levels of muscle growth portions.

Hey good idea!!

[120Percent]

This is really interesting. Have you made any more progress? I often think of this sort of thing, but likely wouldn't make it as an add on for something like Pathfinder or D&D.

[weaponzero]

Serious question.  Wouldn't a more narrative oriented system such as year zero, BRP, or perhaps cypher be better for this?  The systems you've chosen seem more focused on tactical play.