The Elimination of FBB after 2011

[Sar-Net]

some points:

1. fbb is not marketable, due drug abuse some athletes went way off attractivity - also hardcore fans will agree
2. fetish sessions and prostitutions are the only way for some athletes to survive and continue training
3. the paysites do not run well - to many paysites and a big robbery from some self declared "fans" that eliminate the financial base of the girls
4. also mens hardcore bb is less and less marketable - only a big and financial strong gay community keeps it running

I have to tell you your entirely wrong on point one, anything can be sold, remember pet rocks, or how about prairie pizza's(a big cow patty in a pizza box, oh for the uninformed a cow patty is cow shit and it wasn't being sold as fertilizer) but a hell of a lot of Manure is sold as fertilizer, or turd birds(another shit product, made from horse turds or well I hope your getting the point,  absolutely anything can be sold, the better the salesman the bigger the price, look at designer clothing, people pay huge sums for clothing but others buy almost the same clothing at k-mart, the designer lable is just sold buy a better salesman,  FBB's can be sold there is no question, the only question is why the money ain't going to the right people.

Point two is fundimentaly flawed too, First off the money that is currently generated from FBB for the most part is not going to the women.  sales is a matter of making people want something thats the whole idea behind advertizing.  Its not this is what sells but lets make money on this.   There are billions of people on this planet and there are more then enough who can pay for FBB related content for people to make money from FBB.  There are people who make money from FBB right now actually quite a few, One I can think of makes enough money to buy fancy very expensive Burgotti motorcycles the average person couldn't afford.

A pay site is only as good as the person running it, but these sites must be making money a lot of them have been around for quite a few years.

Well mens BB is not my big interest, but a few male BB have made a hell of a lot of money, anyone remember Arnold?   And I can tell you there are a hell of a lot more women who like male BB then there are gay men in the world.

[Sar-Net]

LIVE NOW

Muscular Women Are Live Right Now

Join private chats instantly. Real models. Real-time interaction.

120+ models online now

Start Watching →

[Unicron]

some points:

4. also mens hardcore bb is less and less marketable - only a big and financial strong gay community keeps it running

You hit the nail right on the head. I was told the same by an IFBB Pro. She said that "they" (the top dogs) are concerned about the interest of their own mainly because some of them are a part of the gay community. They believe that mens BB should be the main focus and not the womens division; which is sad. At the same time, they want to continue to influence women to compete in the NPC and IFBB ($$$$$$$), but in less disciplined and more softcore divisions. Women's bodybuilding can be extreme at times depending on the competitors and their lifestyle.

As for "Physique", it's pretty much like the European Physique divisions: Figure + posing & flexing. I'm sure it will be interesting. It's still what most of us love and enjoy to see; women with muscles flexing. 

[Unicron]

Well mens BB is not my big interest, but a few male BB have made a hell of a lot of money, anyone remember Arnold?   And I can tell you there are a hell of a lot more women who like male BB then there are gay men in the world.

You may be right about the women, but male BB is still marketed towards men. Therefore, their biggest consumers are males. Not to mention, the male portion of bodybuilding is heavily supported by the gay community. In fact, I was told recently, that they are implementing a "Men's Physique" division. I'm pretty sure this division wasn't created in light of the female community.


Men's Physique Division
Beginning in 2011 a new division for men will be introduced – Men's Physique. The following are the guidelines/rules.

Judging Criteria:

* Muscularity and Body Condition
Judges will be looking for fit contestants who display proper shape and symmetry combined with muscularity and overall condition. This is not a bodybuilding contest so extreme muscularity should be marked down.

* Stage Presence and Personality
Contestants will be asked to walk in board shorts (shorts must be just above the knee in length and can be one inch below the belly button, no spandex and no logos are permitted on the board shorts however a manufacturer's logo such as Nike symbol or Billabong are acceptable. Competitors will enter the stage without a shirt and barefoot. No lewd acts are allowed. Example: The moon pose. Judges are looking for the contestant with the best stage presence and poise who can successfully convey his personality to the audience.

COMPETITION JUDGING

Presentation:
* Competitors will walk to the center of the stage alone and perform quarter (1/4) turns with optional pose of hand on hip or hand in pocket, face the judges as directed then proceed to the side of the stage.

Comparison Round:
* The competitors will be brought back out in a group and directed to do quarter turns
* Judges will have the opportunity to compare competitors against each other in quarter turns.

[Warhawk Overdrive]

I knew about the new women division but did not know about the men. I guess someone thought these shows were too short. 

[Sar-Net]

Well mens BB is not my big interest, but a few male BB have made a hell of a lot of money, anyone remember Arnold?   And I can tell you there are a hell of a lot more women who like male BB then there are gay men in the world.

You may be right about the women, but male BB is still marketed towards men. Therefore, their biggest consumers are males. Not to mention, the male portion of bodybuilding is heavily supported by the gay community. In fact, I was told recently, that they are implementing a "Men's Physique" division. I'm pretty sure this division wasn't created in light of the female community.


Men's Physique Division
Beginning in 2011 a new division for men will be introduced – Men's Physique. The following are the guidelines/rules.

Judging Criteria:

* Muscularity and Body Condition
Judges will be looking for fit contestants who display proper shape and symmetry combined with muscularity and overall condition. This is not a bodybuilding contest so extreme muscularity should be marked down.

* Stage Presence and Personality
Contestants will be asked to walk in board shorts (shorts must be just above the knee in length and can be one inch below the belly button, no spandex and no logos are permitted on the board shorts however a manufacturer's logo such as Nike symbol or Billabong are acceptable. Competitors will enter the stage without a shirt and barefoot. No lewd acts are allowed. Example: The moon pose. Judges are looking for the contestant with the best stage presence and poise who can successfully convey his personality to the audience.

COMPETITION JUDGING

Presentation:
* Competitors will walk to the center of the stage alone and perform quarter (1/4) turns with optional pose of hand on hip or hand in pocket, face the judges as directed then proceed to the side of the stage.

Comparison Round:
* The competitors will be brought back out in a group and directed to do quarter turns
* Judges will have the opportunity to compare competitors against each other in quarter turns.

"Men's Physique Division"  ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!  Well it would seem you could be right, this sounds "GAY"!   

But on the other hand it could be another misguided attempt to get drugs out of the sport.

Like that is ever gona happen.

In my opinion this is much more likely then the IFBB catering to gays.

I can tell ya there are a hell of a lot of homophobic male body builders, so catering to gays is not real likely.

That said you are entirely correct in that many gays follow body building.

I remember one of those, "Drug Free" BB contests, it was pretty funny the winner of  one I saw on TV while flipping threw the channels had the old roid problem of bitch tits, yep the male "Drug Free" winner had them.

It was a total joke, the guy had absolutely horrible genetics for bodybuilding and was obviously on the roids but just got off them to pass the drug test, what I don't understand was why in the hell they didn't kick him out when he showed up that way at a "Drug Free" contest.

Looks like the usual BS from the IFBB with the usual vague judging criteria.

I predict this Men's Physique Division will last all of two years then they will give up on it as a failure.

I'm only saying two years as they will think the first years poor showing will be just because its new.

[Warhawk Overdrive]

I knew about the new women division but did not know about the men. I guess someone thought these shows were too short. 

P.S. Didn't the NPC or one of the other amateur organizations try doing men's fitness a few years ago??

[Bobt]

Timmon: "I find the obsession with changing FBB odd. I thought it was just me, but I find IFBB figure and fitness totally un interesting. Nothing against the athletes, they are fansastic, fit, dedicated, beautiful, etc. iI just find those divisions boring . I found it interesting that this view is being voiced in a few bodybuilding forums from those who attended the Arnold weekend, so it can't just be me after all. It looks like if the IFBB are going to change their hard core women's division, they need to be looking at the whole of their contest structure. Happy Days!"

I especially agree with Timmon in this last statement he made. The women in Figure and Fitness are stunningly beautiful but it is the way they are presented  in these catagories that makes them look static and boring. When you see photo's of them just posing or whatever outside of Competitions they are absolutely gorgeous and beautiful. Even more than a lot of the female bodybuilders. So now do away with Female Bodybuildig?  Go figure!!!!

[Warhawk Overdrive]

I like figure and fitness as much as the next muscle lovin' guy but to me when the women are doing anything besides the fitness routine it just reminds of the Hawaiian Tropic, but with broader shoulders

[pyro]

some points:

1. fbb is not marketable, due drug abuse some athletes went way off attractivity - also hardcore fans will agree
2. fetish sessions and prostitutions are the only way for some athletes to survive and continue training
3. the paysites do not run well - to many paysites and a big robbery from some self declared "fans" that eliminate the financial base of the girls
4. also mens hardcore bb is less and less marketable - only a big and financial strong gay community keeps it running

I have to tell you your entirely wrong on point one, anything can be sold, remember pet rocks, or how about prairie pizza's(a big cow patty in a pizza box, oh for the uninformed a cow patty is cow shit and it wasn't being sold as fertilizer) but a hell of a lot of Manure is sold as fertilizer, or turd birds(another shit product, made from horse turds or well I hope your getting the point,  absolutely anything can be sold, the better the salesman the bigger the price, look at designer clothing, people pay huge sums for clothing but others buy almost the same clothing at k-mart, the designer lable is just sold buy a better salesman,  FBB's can be sold there is no question, the only question is why the money ain't going to the right people.

Point two is fundimentaly flawed too, First off the money that is currently generated from FBB for the most part is not going to the women.  sales is a matter of making people want something thats the whole idea behind advertizing.  Its not this is what sells but lets make money on this.   There are billions of people on this planet and there are more then enough who can pay for FBB related content for people to make money from FBB.  There are people who make money from FBB right now actually quite a few, One I can think of makes enough money to buy fancy very expensive Burgotti motorcycles the average person couldn't afford.

A pay site is only as good as the person running it, but these sites must be making money a lot of them have been around for quite a few years.

Well mens BB is not my big interest, but a few male BB have made a hell of a lot of money, anyone remember Arnold?   And I can tell you there are a hell of a lot more women who like male BB then there are gay men in the world.

Sorry, you are completely wrong.

First, I was not precise in paysites, I ment the womens personal membersites first. Robbery of pictures is an issue about that, also the big amount of paysites.

Only business for hardcore female bodybuilders is fetish and sex, and believe me, most of them do not do that because they like it, but because of money and survive.

Also the Gay support of mens bb is truth.

You are far from reality, try to get more inside information and real arguments.
When you are so clever, try to market fbb as sport or real mdel business and tell me in 6 month about your success - and use for marketing not the small selection of beautiful faces, but the less attractive ones with severe sideffects of drug abuse.

[Unicron]

I knew about the new women division but did not know about the men. I guess someone thought these shows were too short. 

P.S. Didn't the NPC or one of the other amateur organizations try doing men's fitness a few years ago??

I'm not too sure if the "Fitness Atlantic" is a part of the INBF, but they do have a "Male Fitness Model" category and maybe a fitness division as well. I think the "FAME" and WNSO organizations also have similar divisions.

[GetIt]

Find me one sport that isn't run like a business. There's no sport at all if money isn't a factor because any business or sport needs capital in order to operate. So, it's not realistic to expect an organization to continue running a sport that's not that financially viable. They have to do what's in their best interest in order to salvage some form of financial gain, and ultimately the sport itself.

Every sport, every company experiences growing pains. Who knows what the outlook may be 5 years from now, such a decision might turn out to be in the best interest of FBB. Focusing on a physique division may bring in more casual observers, more sponsorships, and more revenue.

Ultimately if FBB is going to grow, then it's up to the women to stand up and save their sport.

[rom553]

I remember the beginning of womens bodybuilding back in 1979 when I saw an article about Lisa Lyon.
A picture of her and that was all it took, I was hooked from then on.  I have seen many competitors come and
go over the years. Have seen a lot of changes in the sport and the women. Enjoyed the coverage it received in the media
when they were really promoting it. Great times!  Also have read many opinions and articles about the end of fbb. 
It seems to me that there will always be those who predict the end times to just about anything, including the world.
I say let's not worry about the end of anything and just keep enjoying what we have. And when the end comes;
In the words of the Gladiator: Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.

[Sar-Net]

some points:

1. fbb is not marketable, due drug abuse some athletes went way off attractivity - also hardcore fans will agree
2. fetish sessions and prostitutions are the only way for some athletes to survive and continue training
3. the paysites do not run well - to many paysites and a big robbery from some self declared "fans" that eliminate the financial base of the girls
4. also mens hardcore bb is less and less marketable - only a big and financial strong gay community keeps it running

I have to tell you your entirely wrong on point one, anything can be sold, remember pet rocks, or how about prairie pizza's(a big cow patty in a pizza box, oh for the uninformed a cow patty is cow shit and it wasn't being sold as fertilizer) but a hell of a lot of Manure is sold as fertilizer, or turd birds(another shit product, made from horse turds or well I hope your getting the point,  absolutely anything can be sold, the better the salesman the bigger the price, look at designer clothing, people pay huge sums for clothing but others buy almost the same clothing at k-mart, the designer lable is just sold buy a better salesman,  FBB's can be sold there is no question, the only question is why the money ain't going to the right people.

Point two is fundimentaly flawed too, First off the money that is currently generated from FBB for the most part is not going to the women.  sales is a matter of making people want something thats the whole idea behind advertizing.  Its not this is what sells but lets make money on this.   There are billions of people on this planet and there are more then enough who can pay for FBB related content for people to make money from FBB.  There are people who make money from FBB right now actually quite a few, One I can think of makes enough money to buy fancy very expensive Burgotti motorcycles the average person couldn't afford.

A pay site is only as good as the person running it, but these sites must be making money a lot of them have been around for quite a few years.

Well mens BB is not my big interest, but a few male BB have made a hell of a lot of money, anyone remember Arnold?   And I can tell you there are a hell of a lot more women who like male BB then there are gay men in the world.

Sorry, you are completely wrong.

First, I was not precise in paysites, I ment the womens personal membersites first. Robbery of pictures is an issue about that, also the big amount of paysites.

Only business for hardcore female bodybuilders is fetish and sex, and believe me, most of them do not do that because they like it, but because of money and survive.

Also the Gay support of mens bb is truth.

You are far from reality, try to get more inside information and real arguments.
When you are so clever, try to market fbb as sport or real mdel business and tell me in 6 month about your success - and use for marketing not the small selection of beautiful faces, but the less attractive ones with severe sideffects of drug abuse.

One of the problems with any site devoted to a single person is getting members, but there are some FBB's who appear to make money from their personal pay sites.

Case one Debi Laszewski, she has a rank of 2,904,367 which is pretty good considering Google claims to index 1 Trillion unique web sites.  This means her site is ranked higher than, oh lets see here, roughly 999,997 Million other sites, that seems pretty good to me.  Debi does not do much promotion, she is only linked to 46 other sites.  I'm sure she doesn't pay Google to be a preferred search return, etc.  Debi's last name may hurt her rank as its hard to spell.

Heres another FBB's personal site that appears to be making money, in fact she is ranking higher than Debi, Yvette Bova's site has a rank of 692,152, so Yvette is ranked higher than over 999,999 Million web sites, she only has 28 sites linking hers, she could be doing better.

I think you missed my point, that is the money made from almost all FBB pay sites is not going to the women, neither is money from most photographs, neither is money from the contests, and in general they ain't getting money from advertising.

The money that is made from FBB and I bet its a lot more then you would think is going into a bunch of LEECHES pockets.

The FBB's need a new federation with real promotion, and they need to get some of the money made off them.

As to Gays and mens BB I said the IFBB is not catering to gays, not that gays don't spend a lot of money on male BB products.

I can show facts to base my opinions, but that isn't the point, this is a discussion not who can put the most facts out there.

As to drugs, people always make drug claims even though they have no clue, the majority of "roid" problems with the womens faces are diet and diet drugs not roids.   Millions and Millions of people take roids and other performance enhancing drugs, there are hardly any real cases ware the drugs can be directly linked to problems, most of those are from taking bad or mis-marked drugs not just problems with the drug.   Then there is simply the old age problem in FBB, there is no masters, etc. group, so women in their forty's are still in the camp when new younger women should be the ones center stage.   

To tell the truth on average when the women are not dieted down the FBB's faces probably look better than the average 40+ year old housewife.  But what people are used to seeing is 20ish waif models and 20ish celebs, women who have faces that most would consider much better looking then average, The FBB's are more to the normal looks of people and with the majority being in their mid forties its kina a bad comparison, kina like apples to oranges, is an orange a bad apple?

No body truly markets FBB, hell even MBB is not marketed, if you have any delusion it is you need to see a psychiatrist.

I tried to point out lots of things many would think can't make money have been marketed and people have made a hell of a lot of money on them, if someone was to market FBB, it would make money, maybe not as much as porn or football or ... but that still leaves a hell of a lot of money out there.  (My guess would be billions, but hey I think big, maybe its only hundreds of millions)

When you can show me any ads for a FBB contest or FBB web sites that are not in the back of a BB mag, hell show me webvertising (Any Google banner ads for FBB sites?), when someone is promoting FBB then you can have your argument but you can't because no one has promoted FBB, or promoted the FBB's themselves. 

The IFBB is a Weider promotion tool it has nothing to do with promoting FBB or BB, it never has promoted the sport, what little it has done is just to sell Weider products.  They need to change the name of the IFBB to "wishy washy change our minds at the flip of a hat Weider promotion group" or the "WWCOMATFOAHWPG".   

Real rules, real standards, professional hair and makeup, safe dieting, real promotion, real advertising, real prize money, and then there will be real money to be made for the FBB's and the promoters.



edit:(Had to correct my math)

[Unicron]

Well mens BB is not my big interest, but a few male BB have made a hell of a lot of money, anyone remember Arnold?   And I can tell you there are a hell of a lot more women who like male BB then there are gay men in the world.

You may be right about the women, but male BB is still marketed towards men. Therefore, their biggest consumers are males. Not to mention, the male portion of bodybuilding is heavily supported by the gay community. In fact, I was told recently, that they are implementing a "Men's Physique" division. I'm pretty sure this division wasn't created in light of the female community.


Men's Physique Division
Beginning in 2011 a new division for men will be introduced – Men's Physique. The following are the guidelines/rules.

Judging Criteria:

* Muscularity and Body Condition
Judges will be looking for fit contestants who display proper shape and symmetry combined with muscularity and overall condition. This is not a bodybuilding contest so extreme muscularity should be marked down.

* Stage Presence and Personality
Contestants will be asked to walk in board shorts (shorts must be just above the knee in length and can be one inch below the belly button, no spandex and no logos are permitted on the board shorts however a manufacturer's logo such as Nike symbol or Billabong are acceptable. Competitors will enter the stage without a shirt and barefoot. No lewd acts are allowed. Example: The moon pose. Judges are looking for the contestant with the best stage presence and poise who can successfully convey his personality to the audience.

COMPETITION JUDGING

Presentation:
* Competitors will walk to the center of the stage alone and perform quarter (1/4) turns with optional pose of hand on hip or hand in pocket, face the judges as directed then proceed to the side of the stage.

Comparison Round:
* The competitors will be brought back out in a group and directed to do quarter turns
* Judges will have the opportunity to compare competitors against each other in quarter turns.

"Men's Physique Division"  ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!  Well it would seem you could be right, this sounds "GAY"!   

But on the other hand it could be another misguided attempt to get drugs out of the sport.

Like that is ever gona happen.

In my opinion this is much more likely then the IFBB catering to gays.

I can tell ya there are a hell of a lot of homophobic male body builders, so catering to gays is not real likely.

That said you are entirely correct in that many gays follow body building.

I remember one of those, "Drug Free" BB contests, it was pretty funny the winner of  one I saw on TV while flipping threw the channels had the old roid problem of bitch tits, yep the male "Drug Free" winner had them.

It was a total joke, the guy had absolutely horrible genetics for bodybuilding and was obviously on the roids but just got off them to pass the drug test, what I don't understand was why in the hell they didn't kick him out when he showed up that way at a "Drug Free" contest.

Looks like the usual BS from the IFBB with the usual vague judging criteria.

I predict this Men's Physique Division will last all of two years then they will give up on it as a failure.

I'm only saying two years as they will think the first years poor showing will be just because its new.

LOL Over the years, I've seen some real odd looking competitors from both the men's and women's divisions. As for "Men's Physique", it's actually been around for a couple years now, but in other organizations. I'm just curious as to how it will be accepted among fans when and after it debuts. I'm sure it's gonna get popular quick. Take "Bikini" for example, bikini contests have been around before women's bodybuilding, but it was never perceived as an event that would be a part of the "fitness industry". Now that the NPC and IFBB implemented a bikini (contest) division into their organizations, it's become one of the biggest trends since "Figure", which is only an element of the "Fitness" division. Unfortunately, Fitness became too "extreme" and would be potential competitors/enthusiasts became more and more intimidated by the likes of Stacy Simmons, Tracey Greenwood, Alti Bautista and Adela Garcia. Unlike Stacy, Tracey, Alti and Adela; some women would rather look athletic than to actually be athletic. Very few women in Figure and Bikini are athletic or even have an athletic background unlike some female bodybuilders.

As for the men, Bodybuilding allows for a lot more discipline and intense training where as, "Physique" limits how you condition yourself. Don't get me wrong, I know it requires some level of discipline for "Physique", but in the end, it's still another male model competition.

The new Women's Physique division, might bring back the 80's feel of female bodybuilding, which I actually don't mind at all. I have a feeling, we'll be seeing bodybuilder type physiques again within a few years. After all, look at how much bigger most of the Figure competitors are now compared to Rachel McLish, Marjo Selin and Negrita Jayde when they were in their prime.

[Unicron]

Timmon: "I find the obsession with changing FBB odd. I thought it was just me, but I find IFBB figure and fitness totally un interesting. Nothing against the athletes, they are fansastic, fit, dedicated, beautiful, etc. iI just find those divisions boring . I found it interesting that this view is being voiced in a few bodybuilding forums from those who attended the Arnold weekend, so it can't just be me after all. It looks like if the IFBB are going to change their hard core women's division, they need to be looking at the whole of their contest structure. Happy Days!"

I especially agree with Timmon in this last statement he made. The women in Figure and Fitness are stunningly beautiful but it is the way they are presented  in these catagories that makes them look static and boring. When you see photo's of them just posing or whatever outside of Competitions they are absolutely gorgeous and beautiful. Even more than a lot of the female bodybuilders. So now do away with Female Bodybuildig?  Go figure!!!!

Ditto. The posing aspect pretty much, explains why in Europe and Asia some of the figure competitions allow their competitors to pose...It's appealing to the eyes! I'm more interested in seeing women show off their conditioning by posing and flexing rather than just standing on stage doing quarter turns. They should change figure to physique and do away with figure...LOL