WOS Rising Phoenix 2019

[gordonlloyd]

[cold316]

[h666666]

Margie could have been tighter… there were some women who didn't look ready for a show of this caliber… and geez, I had to wait for what felt like half a day for all the Fitness, Wellness, Spa, Figure, Shape, Form, Silhouette, Bikini, One-Piece, Heels, etc. divisions before bodybuilding… This proliferation of classes is a travesty!

[freudian1]

 I haven’t posted anything until now because I was also at the show! It was an awesome  event, I definitely recommend going if you can. 


 So many things that I could say, but here are a few things off of the top of my head: 


- I agreed with Helle  being the winner, but  I went back-and-forth several times in the pre-judging. Two fantastic champions with different physiques.  Also, I think it’s great that we can go into a contest not knowing who is going to win. 


- I have a strong suspicion that the advice given to the competitors by the judges and by wings of strength that they were going to reward fullness and femininity, and that it was better to come in under conditioned than over conditioned.  They definitely still rewarded conditioning, which is why Helle and Irene did so well,  but I think many of the ladies decided  to be cautious in that area? 


- Monique Jones was in a class by herself when it came to size. As much as I love Aleesha,  I was stunned when she got most muscular, and not Monique.  I do think  fifth place was the right spot for Monique , she came in a little soft and a little top-heavy. Her symmetry was still very good, but  her shoulders and back are so massive that it’s hard to build legs that keep up. 


-  Andrea Shaw is just awesome.  Future star to be sure. 


-Kristina Mendoza came in with a disappointing package, her conditioning looked worse than Chicago, which shocked me.  But  it was still a thrill to see her on stage, and I’m sure she’ll be better next year. 


- So many of the ladies are super nice in person, though it’s best to approach them after they’ve eaten, LOL.  During the posedown they were super appreciative of those of us who were cheering loudly, and many were very approachable at the after party. 

[luis3iguel]

The top 6 Theresa Ivancik champion in Northfolk,Monique Jones Champion of Romania 2018,Nicki Chartrant,champip toronto 2018, Margie Martín champ Toronto and Omaha 2019,and Helle Trevino champ tampa 2019, Irene Andersen in 3th place,

[birmi482]

@freudian1. I maybe was not at the event like you, but following from far away, my conclusions are somehow different:

1. Conditioning, conditioning. This is still the holy grail of everything for the judges.

2. Muscle mass being punished. Monique Jones' legs may not be her strongest part, but so they were last year in Romania where she won. The only athlete in the world that can match huge shoulders with her legs is Nataliya Amazonka, but i really doubt that judges would reward her for that, given the current regime.

[gordonlloyd]

[FemFlexUSA]

I haven’t posted anything until now because I was also at the show! It was an awesome  event, I definitely recommend going if you can.


 So many things that I could say, but here are a few things off of the top of my head:


- I agreed with Helle  being the winner, but  I went back-and-forth several times in the pre-judging. Two fantastic champions with different physiques.  Also, I think it’s great that we can go into a contest not knowing who is going to win.


- I have a strong suspicion that the advice given to the competitors by the judges and by wings of strength that they were going to reward fullness and femininity, and that it was better to come in under conditioned than over conditioned.  They definitely still rewarded conditioning, which is why Helle and Irene did so well,  but I think many of the ladies decided  to be cautious in that area?


- Monique Jones was in a class by herself when it came to size. As much as I love Aleesha,  I was stunned when she got most muscular, and not Monique.  I do think  fifth place was the right spot for Monique , she came in a little soft and a little top-heavy. Her symmetry was still very good, but  her shoulders and back are so massive that it’s hard to build legs that keep up.


-  Andrea Shaw is just awesome.  Future star to be sure. 


-Kristina Mendoza came in with a disappointing package, her conditioning looked worse than Chicago, which shocked me.  But  it was still a thrill to see her on stage, and I’m sure she’ll be better next year.


- So many of the ladies are super nice in person, though it’s best to approach them after they’ve eaten, LOL.  During the posedown they were super appreciative of those of us who were cheering loudly, and many were very approachable at the after party.

It's wonderful to hear so many different opinions from people who were at the show, but the greatest thing is that you were present. I know to a certainty - this I am reporting from firsthand accounts - that MOST of the women bodybuilders love the true fans of bodybuilding who come to their shows. It's one thing to be an internet fan (and they understand it is not possible for most people to travel to Phoenix), but the guys who arrange flight tickets and hotel and show tickets to see them compete are held in a high esteem by the competitors.

[freudian1]

@freudian1. I maybe was not at the event like you, but following from far away, my conclusions are somehow different:

1. Conditioning, conditioning. This is still the holy grail of everything for the judges.

2. Muscle mass being punished. Monique Jones' legs may not be her strongest part, but so they were last year in Romania where she won. The only athlete in the world that can match huge shoulders with her legs is Nataliya Amazonka, but i really doubt that judges would reward her for that, given the current regime.

@birmi482.  I respect where you are coming from. I don’t fully agree, but let me clarify what I mean. 


1.  I agree that conditioning remains extremely important to the judges. But it’s not everything, otherwise Irene (who have the superior conditioning) would have placed higher than Margie.  Pauline Nelson had standout  conditioning and incredibly grainy skin, but got 13th. 


I still think the current messaging to the competitors is that they won’t _win_ a show without great conditioning, but they can still do really well with solid conditioning and focusing on other elements of their physique. 


 Even though it’s a different category, I think it’s interesting to look at what happened in women’s physique at rising Phoenix. Natalia Coelho  the defending champion and showed up with insane conditioning like she always does. But they gave her second place and gave the title to someone who had more fullness, but nowhere near the same level of conditioning. 


2.  It’s hard for me to agree that muscle mass is being punished when the top five places went to five of the largest women in the show. Helle is 17 pounds heavier than when she won in 2017 and they still gave her the title.  If your  viewpoint is that the title should go to the most massive competitor then I can get why you would be upset,  even though I don’t think that’s ever been the way winners have been picked. I love the girls who get massive as well, Monique‘s upper body was the single most impressive spectacle I saw all weekend.  And yes, the judges don’t love size the way we do. But they seem to appreciate it. 


 Ask for Natalya Amazonka, it’ll be very interesting to see if she brings pro level conditioning to the Romania stage, and  who else shows up to compete. i'm optimistic they would reward her.

[birmi482]

@freudian1. Thanks for your comments. Yes, i may be biased towards muscle mass and Nataliya Amazonka, but I am not alone, 500K followers on insta seem to substantiate this. For offseason her muscle mass plus definition is just unbelievable, she is offseason more defined than all other FBB  having by far the largest muscle mass !!!! But we speak about competition and I really doubt that her conditioning in Romania will be anything close to the top girls in Tampa. If you compare her body in last year's Romania show where she won as Amateur, to the Pros at rhe same event which was won by Monique, the difference was extraordinary. She was so much larger then the Pros with so much more muscle mass that even Monique looked tiny next to her, but her conditioning was so much off the marks that she would have probably placed last at the Pro event while all the fans were completely taken over by her size and proportions and she would have won any fan contest. So who was right in Romania, fans or judges? This is exactly my point

[birmi482]

I meant to say her conditioning won't be anywhere close to the girla at Rising Phoenix

[Warhawk Overdrive]

I haven’t posted anything until now because I was also at the show! It was an awesome  event, I definitely recommend going if you can.


 So many things that I could say, but here are a few things off of the top of my head:


- I agreed with Helle  being the winner, but  I went back-and-forth several times in the pre-judging. Two fantastic champions with different physiques.  Also, I think it’s great that we can go into a contest not knowing who is going to win.


- I have a strong suspicion that the advice given to the competitors by the judges and by wings of strength that they were going to reward fullness and femininity, and that it was better to come in under conditioned than over conditioned.  They definitely still rewarded conditioning, which is why Helle and Irene did so well,  but I think many of the ladies decided  to be cautious in that area?


- Monique Jones was in a class by herself when it came to size. As much as I love Aleesha,  I was stunned when she got most muscular, and not Monique.  I do think  fifth place was the right spot for Monique , she came in a little soft and a little top-heavy. Her symmetry was still very good, but  her shoulders and back are so massive that it’s hard to build legs that keep up.


-  Andrea Shaw is just awesome.  Future star to be sure. 


-Kristina Mendoza came in with a disappointing package, her conditioning looked worse than Chicago, which shocked me.  But  it was still a thrill to see her on stage, and I’m sure she’ll be better next year.


- So many of the ladies are super nice in person, though it’s best to approach them after they’ve eaten, LOL.  During the posedown they were super appreciative of those of us who were cheering loudly, and many were very approachable at the after party.

It's wonderful to hear so many different opinions from people who were at the show, but the greatest thing is that you were present. I know to a certainty - this I am reporting from firsthand accounts - that MOST of the women bodybuilders love the true fans of bodybuilding who come to their shows. It's one thing to be an internet fan (and they understand it is not possible for most people to travel to Phoenix), but the guys who arrange flight tickets and hotel and show tickets to see them compete are held in a high esteem by the competitors.

That is nice to hear. One of the reasons I stopped going to shows was because I did not think the women appreciated the fans being there.  After a while I came to feel that bodybuilding shows were basically conventions for people in the industry.  If you are not a bodybuilder, promoter or photographer or someone who knew someone in the show..... well, you were tolerated but not much else. Just buying a ticket was not enough. Most of the time the best an average fan can hope for is a few pictures. And most of those will be of the women onstage.

I'm not saying I ever expected anyone (women in this case) to drop to their knees and kiss my feet :::Oh you are a fan?! Here let me fluff that pillow for you:::: But you try to talk to them and they let someone (another bodybuilder, promoter, photographer) interrupt then they walk away like you were not there. Or (some of them) make you feel like a creep or stalker because you wanted a picture of them. After a few years of that you get the message.

I really hope things are changing for the guys who go to shows. My (admittedly uninformed) view is that anytime the ladies say anything good about the fans is the exception. If they acknowledge the fans at all.


IMO

[FemFlexUSA]

That is nice to hear. One of the reasons I stopped going to shows was because I did not think the women appreciated the fans being there.  After a while I came to feel that bodybuilding shows were basically conventions for people in the industry.  If you are not a bodybuilder, promoter or photographer or someone who knew someone in the show..... well, you were tolerated but not much else. Just buying a ticket was not enough. Most of the time the best an average fan can hope for is a few pictures. And most of those will be of the women onstage.

I'm not saying I ever expected anyone (women in this case) to drop to their knees and kiss my feet :::Oh you are a fan?! Here let me fluff that pillow for you:::: But you try to talk to them and they let someone (another bodybuilder, promoter, photographer) interrupt then they walk away like you were not there. Or (some of them) make you feel like a creep or stalker because you wanted a picture of them. After a few years of that you get the message.

I really hope things are changing for the guys who go to shows. My (admittedly uninformed) view is that anytime the ladies say anything good about the fans is the exception. If they acknowledge the fans at all.

IMO

I'm bummed to hear that what you've shared here are primary memories of going to shows and since you were actually present and experiencing this, I wouldn't consider you uninformed at all.  I know exactly what you're describing and yes, there was always this layer of participants and enablers who held an undefinable animosity towards "just fans" of female bodybuilders.  Photographers and promoters and "managers" were often in on it, too.  But if you ever got a chance to attend the Jan Tana - especially the banquet - there were really cool times sitting down and breaking bread with the stars of the show.  And now, it seems those days are here again on the bodybuilding side. 

[imanze]

IMO, many many thanks for expressing your frustration, which I fully share. I have been to two shows only, I must admit, travelling all the way from Europe but, as a fan, I felt completely neglected and even ridiculised at times, just for not being in the industry.
I really wonder where this industry makes money. Probably not with the general public.

[freudian1]

I'm not going to question anyone else's bad experiences, and of course it goes without saying that some of the competitors are approachable in their personality and some are not.

I think it's worth reminding ourselves that in professional sports, it's extremely rare for fans to have any kind of substantive contact with the athletes on the day of competition. So I think we are a little bit lucky in the access that we do have.And personally I'm a little amazed at that when they are dieting, starving, and focused on competing that some of them still have the patience to chat with complete strangers. I'm not sure that I would.

I feel pretty certain that the ladies do appreciate those who buy tickets and come to the show.But for most of them, it's not the fans at the show who pay their bills. It's the photographers and promoters who give them paid shoots and drive their Internet traffic. And some of them have relationships with the ladies that go back for years. So I'm not surprised that's who they talk to, or that they also prefer to other people in the industry. They've built their lives around working out, it's not surprising that they're more comfortable with other people have a similar outlook. And also, we have to face it, some of us fans ARE creepy. Not many, but it doesn't take much to make people wary when stranger after stranger is coming up to them.

That said, even if you disagree with everything I've just said, I think we can all agree that Wings of strength has made it WAY easier to have a good fan experience. It's a brilliant idea to have their merchandise table staffed by popular women bodybuilders who aren't competing that day, but are just there to meet fans and sell T-shirts. At the Chicago show, I got the chance to have a good 15 minute conversation with Helle Trevino-it was the highlight of my weekend. When I saw her again the night before rising Phoenix, we spoke for about 30 seconds and then she moved on. She remembered me, and thanked me for coming, but she was in competition mode- and I don't blame her for one second, even though of course I would have loved to chat for a long time again.

Just my two cents.