#DISCUSSION: Stories with growth or no growth?

[zarina]

Just curious to see if there is a preference.



Consider growth to include any transformation in size, strength, muscle, etc (including gaining super strength, etc).  I suppose stories where the guy shrinks would be under this category also. 

No growth is just like it says - no transformations.  Everyone is pretty much at the size, strength, etc they're going to be for the story.  Body parts might get bigger by flexing or getting pumped up in the gym, but there's no overall physical metamorphosis. 

I've set it for one vote each, but you can change if you like.

[rigger30]

I prefer transformations. The slower the better. I like Lisa's Path and Jill and Me on this site, Bog things come in small packages and mother knows best on © Saradas, and the Karen series on the Valkyrie is good too. Some of the early ones like triumphant wife in the very early miscellaneous folders on dtv also. There are tons more but those are coming to mind as examples.

[NinjaStar]

I can like both, but there's really only so much you can do with an FMG story and not rehash what's already been done. I'm in the minority when I say I have an attention span, like to think when I read, and enjoy well crafted stories with a plot and characterization. People around here just want instant gratification, which is what FMG provides. Big muscles and lots of strength. That's fine, but honestly it bores me when I'm reading a story that's been done to death for years (and often better, at that) or offers nothing more than just spank material. Young skinny girl is bullied, harassed, or feels invisible, conveniently comes across some Applied Phlebotinum grows inexplicably muscular and strong, rapes/kills/demolishes everything at worst, turns her life around and finds happiness at best. The end. Yawn.

The best kind of FMG stories are the slow, realistic kind, by which I mean where a girl gets big and strong through hard work and grit. Growth takes place over time, not instantly. There is nothing sexier than effort and determination. And it's even better when the author lets us into the main character's heads and allows us to know what they think and feel. Unfortunately, I can count on my hand the amount of stories that I read that use this method. Magic amulets, or growth serum or some other kind of bullshit are the order of the day because it requires nothing on the author or the reader's part to make sense, which is a shame. These are just too hackneyed and silly to be interesting on their own, but if the story is written well, the skill of the author can override the cliche factor.

No growth stories can be just as rote and formulaic, usually one shot stories involving a 1st person POV of some guy who happens across an incredibly muscular woman who usually beats the crap out of him and rapes him for any or no reason, much to his enjoyment. Sometimes it's gentler and the two fall in love, but there's really nothing there but the admiration of her muscles and sex. To me, a story without growth would be an excellent opportunity to develop a character in other ways, but again, the low road is too tough an obstacle for most authors to even bother with, which saddens me.

[Wonder4]

I prefer things on the faster side, but for the story to be good it can't be completely over as soon as the "growth switch" is flipped. There needs to be hiccups and complications, character reactions, etc.

Without a doubt, my favorite author is MagnusMagneto, because he does such a great job with the characters that the story is always enjoyable. It doesn't matter if the character is growing or not because of how the characters are written.

[JerusalemTulip]

I usually prefer slow growth, although there are plenty of what I consider well-done stories involving ex factors beyond exercise and currently available nutrition.  I would in fact hesitate to characterize some of the classic slow growth stories as realistic.  Extremely few women have demonstrated the capability to reach say 200 pounds of mostly muscle, and if they did so with steroids, and suffered a realistic level of consequence, much of the allure of the transformation would be gone for me.  If someone transforms into a strong, sexy, well adjusted woman with the aid of magic or junk science, slowly or not,  that is fine to me.  How much more fantastical is it really than the chances of a woman putting on 150 pounds of muscle by working out over a few years?

Essentially, I'll try to appreciate anything that is written well, especially when traffic is slow in here lol.  A story called check please on © Saradas by....the name might have been robojoe, had no growth, and precious little emphasis on (or space for) plot and characterization.  Yet I think it is easily one of the top five female muscle stories I've ever read.  Every word was used to maximum effect, which I consider a demonstration of skill and craft in and of itself, and it was extremely sexy without really involving sex.

P.S.  Your stories are awesome NinjaStar.

[bertmacklinsbrother]

As a fan and fellow growth-writer, the transformation is a very important aspect of a story to me.  Adding in growth, no matter how extreme you take it, gives the main plot a basic story arch that is easy to follow and develop over the course of the narrative.  It gives the reader something to look forward to each time they read and a small cycle of resolution each chapter.  You can have a section of the story that is completely devoid of anything enticing or exciting, yet if it at least shows some evidence of muscle growth, it ensures your reader understands the direction the story is headed and will provide them incentive to continue tuning in.

I'm saying that not just as a writer, but as a reader as well, since that is what I enjoy seeing whenever I read someone else's work.  Pacing is incredibly important, and having a character growing as you read keeps the pace consistent.  I'm definitely going to be coming back for more the second I see evidence of growth in a story because I can confidently say that the story is headed somewhere and the only thing on my mind will be "I wonder how many changes we'll see in the next chapter."

And on that point, change is sexy.  I think the reason many of us are muscle fans in the first place is that is shows a contrast; we can clearly see "These women are different than all of the rest," and many of us enjoy seeing them grow as they post workout videos and updates that show them drawing nearer to competitions.  The comparison of their image before and what they've aspired to become is attractive for many reasons, and in story telling, it makes for an exciting adventure when the writer can portray that accurately.  It can come in multiple forms, whether it's through a magic genie, due to an alien virus, because of drugs that exist in the real world, or just simple hard work in the gym.  No matter what route the story takes, we enjoy the progress and the slow idea of change.

Eh, I'm rambling.  I like growth.  A lot. I'll just leave it at that.

[Jaguar]

First let me thank all the authors for all the work they've produced and made available to us here.  I am grateful to them for that.

Now my personal preferences of what I'd like to see more of:

If I have to choose, I prefer realistic changes, but realistic world class athlete changes at world class athlete speed. (Average person changes are too slow.)

How big do women's biceps get in the real world?  14"?  16"?  Stories with 36" biceps, the girl couldn't do curls because her arms won't bend at past 45 degrees.

Height, as tall me will tell you, past 6'2" the world gets really difficult.  6'6" is probably the maximum useful height. 

But if the girl is undercover, if she is able to move around in real life, have a secret identity, then she has to be 5'10" or less.

In height, artistic gymnasts (the really strong type of gymnasts) are usually 4'10 to 5'3, rhythmic gymnasts (the super flexible type of gymnasts), figure skaters and ballet dancers are usually 5'1 to 5'7.  Shorter means less inertia and less rotational inertia, meaning able to change speed and direction faster.

And all these athletes have thin arms compared to men, often the same diameter as girls with 1/4 their strength and much smaller diameter than weaker men.

Look at real athletes, Olympic artistic gymnasts, figure skaters, ballet dancers -- they don't have 63DDDD breasts, they have AA, A or B breasts, because anything bigger is too unstable and gets in the way. 

The reality of real world class female strength athletes is that they really are much stronger than ordinary men, even ordinary men who work out 4-5 times a week.  Google weight lifting performance standards to see tables:
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.htm

Realistic world class weight gain, for a strength athlete I'm thinking 5 pounds per month.

But then an author has to figure out how to do this in a story that is still interesting.  I've been trying to figure that out and I've gotten nowhere.  What I write looks more like a technical manual.

Maybe doing it realistically is simply just too difficult and time consuming, unless the author is a genius.

And in most genres of writing the reader is expected to suspend disbelief -- things can be completely unrealistic.

At any rate, the author is the one writing the story and he or she should write what they want.  If the story is anything in this genre I'll read it and be grateful to them for writing it.

[Jaguar]

I like mental growth too. 

Character development is a big thing.  When I read I want to feel sorry for a nice character who suffers or feel good about a cruel long-time abusive character who is reaping their just rewards. 

Too often the only emotion shown is sexual excitement.

People are listing favorite stories and authors.  There have been so many good ones, I hate to even try doing this.  Marknew, MrGrayMan, MagnusMagneto, those are the three authors who stick out in my mind right now.  There are a dozen others just as good, but who haven't been as prolific, or haven't put out any stories lately, or who have hard to remember pen names.

Fast unrealistic growth is fine, maybe it is just we get so much of it.