Forum Saradas
Female BodyBuilding & Fitness & Figure - Members Area => Tastes and opinions of Saradas members => Topic started by: deadlykitten on October 25, 2020, 08:59:48 pm
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My fellow schmobros.....
This is a serious topic I would like to engage with you. I checked the threads on here so I don't think this is a repeat. But these are just some thoughts I have and would love if anyone has any opinions or perspectives on it. And these are mainly for anyone like me struggling to be open about loving muscular women.
First, I know for the most part of my life I have kept this a secret. But recently, in my own way, I've been incorporating it into my music, i.e, singing about these women, and also featuring images of them on the covers. I just reached a point where I felt that, these women have the courage to take up the sport so why can't i be more open and celebratory of it? (hence the music)
But what I really want to discuss is why I hated myself for it, in the first place. I can think of 3 possible reasons:
1. Some kind of internalised homophobia - I am not sure how heavy this one is in influence, only because this kind of thing feels like a very heterosexual disposition. But it is a possibility.
2. Ridicule - You worry people are going to make fun of you. But is this something people have lost there jobs over? Or friends maybe? Is it just that we have to develop a thicker skin?
3. You worry it will lower your chances with normal women - This seems to be the most likely contender. In that Female bodybuilders are rare and you find that you still need your needs taken care of by a woman. And revealing your actual desires might land you a life of forever alone.
Would love to here anyone's thoughts. And if this has been covered in another thread, my apologies.
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I am somewhat open about my preference for muscular women, but I feel like I have to be very delicate in not crossing that boundary between being attracted and having a preference for muscular women, and straight up fetishizing them.
I’m a strength athlete as well (Crossfit and Olympic Weightlifting,) and thus I am around, whether it’s at my gym, at competitions pre-COVID or at conventions) strong and muscular men and women. I lift and am into fitness because it’s what I love. I love lifting heavy, being strong and being in shape. However, I do try and be mindful of women, and with my reputation, because the last thing I want is for people, especially women, to think that I am only doing this because I like ogling at muscular bodies and that I’m trying to sleep with anyone who has thick and powerful legs and arms. I currently have a girlfriend, so this isn’t an issue anymore, but when I was on the dating market, I always had to remind myself that a muscular body isn’t everything, and that a person’s values, their outlook on life and who they are as a person are important. There’s nothing wrong with being attracted to muscular women, but no woman is going to enjoy or appreciate being treated like a piece of meat.
The other aspect of my caution comes from those who I consider schmoes. In my opinion, liking and being attracted to muscular women doesn’t make you a schmoe. What makes someone a schmoe, especially the kind of schmoe that strength athletes despise, are the men who approach these women with the social skills of a sack of potatoes. I’ve seen the DMs, messages and social media comments that buff women get, and holy shit the vast majority of them are appalling. Messages like “omg marry me plz,” “how much do u bench,” “do you beat up men?” “I wanna wrestle you.” And so on and so forth. It’s embarrassing, and quite frankly I feel a little cringey knowing that I have the same kind of attraction that these dudes have. I have read posts from people who say that there are female bodybuilders and powerlifters who hate schmoes. They don’t hate guys who simply are attracted to strong women, but rather, they can’t stand the dudes who act like total creeps.
That got a bit ranty, but that’s why I keep my attraction to buff women in check, while at the same being a bit open about it.
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Nobody likes to be given crap for what they like. It does not matter if it is women with muscle or stamp collecting. If you are a sci-fi geek I bet you won't use that as a conversation opener for anyone you just met. ;D Maybe you prefer women who are of a different race. May not sound like a big deal to some of us but others are horrified of the thought, so it might not be something you feel "safe" broadcasting if, that is what you like. It also is not homophonic because you know you are not gay. There is no latent or in the closet thing about it. I bet a lot of guy who like fat women don't broadcast it. And if the subject comes up they will just say they like women with "meat on their bones." But they won't say how much meat
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So I have really given this a ponder and this is how I'd like to respond.
@Warhawk Overdrive - I can see you're point about being perceived as a creep (which I will come to again later). But I don't think you can equate this thing to being into a certain race, or being into fat women. As far as I know, no one consents to the race they are born and it isn't difficult to become fat (if you have money). But Female bodybuilders are completely self-made. For them it seems to be an artistic thing as well as lifestyle thing, and takes a lot of work and patience. Whatever the case they take pride in it. And on some level want to be admired for it (and on theirs terms). This is how I understand it (I could be wrong).
And just to add, if I am a sci-fi geek I would talk about it with people. Not ashamed at all. I do for it other things I am interested in as well, all the time.
@VegasAce - I completely agree with your point. And I totally subscribe to the idea that you need to take up the sport if you are serious about these women. Because it will most definitely give you some window into their experience.
And regarding the creeps, this was definitely staring me in the face but I failed to consider it when I made that initial post. But this is my thing - I feel like these women don't mind being admired at all. But at the same time the mainstream depicts them as freaks, and the people who give them the most attention are the creeps. The former I am not savvy on how to deal with it (sex and the city with muscular women maybe?), and the latter is so frustrating because, i know for a lot of guys into these women, part of the agenda is to make sure they are healthy and happy as well, so it shouldn't be that difficult.
So maybe openness is not the answer. I don't know. But I know I want to flip these two things on some level.
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Interesting topic.. I think there exists a narrow-minded view that if a man is attracted to a muscular woman.. he is actually subconsciously attracted to men. So some (straight) female muscle lovers are afraid of being viewed as homosexual.
Obviously homophobia is fading in Western societies, but I think there is still some natural anxiety about being mistakenly branded as a homosexual..
I (openly) admire women with big muscles, and some other traditionally masculine traits.. it is what it is. But I've never felt that it's subconsciously gay. Even tho there are some ppl who would unawarely insist that it always is.. peace
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I’m absolutely open and have said how I feel to people I know, I used to hold it in but we all have our own ideals and I decided a couple of years ago to express it! I’m now dating a muscular woman and proud to have her by my side everywhere we go
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@Butt kisser - I totally agree with your point. And even though there is some amount of gender-bending involved with female bodybuilders, I think most of us agree that this is a very cis-het (i think this is the modern terminology) disposition. And, as much as I am not into BDSM, us female muscle lovers have a closer affinity to the BDSM community than I think we do the LGBT community.
And (just a little background) I used to work at a venue which also hosted LGBT events, and they no doubt know how to have fun and express their sexuality openly. But working there also reinforced for me (personally) how much we don't go through the same struggles as them. Ours i think is the same struggle the majority of cis-het men have with the twiglets (the Angelina Jolies, catwalk models, etc of the mainstream beauty standard). So I am a bit apprehensive about using them as model for us to be open(or secretive) about this.
@Boof55 - You are my hero.
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From my perspective, being open about my love of muscular women to friends, family, colleagues etc - well, there is nothing to be gained and maybe something to be lost by doing so.
I have been open about my fetish with muscle women themselves - but I’ve never seen the reason to do with anyone else.
I don’t hate myself - just pragmatic...
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DeadlyKitten, great topic and it made me think. Quickly, about your three points, I love women of all types and sessioning with FBBs hasn’t ruined me for normal ladies. When I session I’m looking for play, not a relationship. Family, friends know I like tall, busty, fit women. For years. But the subject of FBBs never came up.
Finally any hidden homosexuality? I’ll put it this way, when I first saw FBBs in the 1980s on TV the style of the bodies then were too masculine for my taste. No appeal. I was in my 40s when I began to session with FBBs in the early 2000s after years doing role play and kink with Dominas who, mostly were Amazons or acted like they were. This century’s busty, muscular FBBs are my style... as well as their overwhelming sex drive and exhibitionism, far greater than any Domina only ladies.
The great appeal of FBBs to me that borders on your homosexuality point is that muscle women have the sex drive of we men. They are obvious, sometimes over the top and many times take charge in the sensual department.
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I find muscular women attractive. I like all you fellas like all kinds of women. It doesn’t matter the race. My current girlfriend found out about finding female bodybuilders attractive. She freaked out and said why do I like this? It was one of those conversations that I have never had. I like to keep it low profile because to many of us it’s normal but to other people it’s disgusting.
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Once again, I am so glad some of you are responding to this. Have always been a firm believer that only dialogue will help me challenge my own assumptions, so this is much needed.
Now, once again I have given all the responses a good ponder and below are my replies. But before getting into it, please know that I am of the opinion that most of us here are cut from the same cloth, so if some of my points seem adversarial, my intent is only open debate.
@pakeha- The idea that being secretive about this is pragmatic? I would beg to differ. And one of the reasons is the fact that this attraction keeps getting referred to as a 'fetish' or a 'paraphilia'. In trying to understand why I love strong women so much, I have tried to find as much literature on it as possible (and, as some of you know, the literature is grossly inadequate). But if you look up any definition of these 2 terms, it eventually made me realise that this is now an obsolete categorisation and an outmoded way of thinking.
Here's why....Evolutionary biologists have since revised their view of homosexuality in the animal kingdom (how this is related I will make clear soon enough, I promise!). Before, they assumed homosexuality had no use because such couples couldn't procreate and therefore couldn't pass on their genes. This has since been proved to be a bias of human error. Because same-sex couples in the animal kingdom have since been observed to take up parenting roles in certain social primates and other animals. So they help in the nurturing of future generations, which is essential for survival.
So with this in mind, If you look up the definitions of 'fetish' or 'paraphilia' (and I would check multiple sources) all it reflects is an idea that whatever the fixation, the person with said fetish cannot get aroused without their particular fixation. But no one says that average joe has a fetish for twiglets (catwalk models, actresses, etc)? And i firmly believe he is as much a fetishist (probably the unhealthiest kind). Since he wouldn't get aroused by female bodybuilders, bdsm, giantesses or whatever, why isn't he considered a fetishist? This whole idea of fetish is a relative notion. (and here, I distance myself from non-consensual 'fetishes'/'fantasies' - pedophilia, beastiliaty, necrophilia, rape fantasies, etc). So I would say, not only is our disposition normal, on some level it is a healthier obsession.
And also, I personally feel it does a disservice to these women we love (i mention this in the first post on this thread).
And (on a sidenote) I have seen dudes on this forum cast aspersions about the mental health of these women. Even if you watch documentaries like 'Taboo' and some other videos on female bodybuilders it paints them in this light - as if they are freaks with a mental problem. And some of them do have intense issues with body dysmorphia, no doubt. But then I would point out how many artists I know who suffer mental health issues. But somehow their art is never considered lesser for it (Sylvia Plath, Spike Milligan, Stephen Fry, etc). Heck I know artists who are known racists and they are still revered irrespective. It is a sad state of affairs that this doesn't get extended to female bodybuilders. And being open can help change that (i Hope).
So there is NO way do i think there is anything to be lost, or that being secretive about this is pragmatic (in fact I think it does more damage). I do think there is so much to be gained by being open and celebratory of it (the only question is 'how?'). But, if all you want is sexual gratification, then it doesn't matter either way, i guess (and at the end of the day, privacy needs to be respected).
I know this is quite a long response (considering you wrote all of 4 lines) but I hope it clarifies my position.
@junglepet77- We are brothers in arms....for the most part. I have since discovered for myself that I struggle to orgasm with normal ladies (or the twiglets as i like to call them). But I love me a shredded lady, tall women, powerlifters, athletes and dancers (on the bulkier side), chunky women who relentlessly do yoga and all manner of strong women.
But even the skinny dancer types I struggle with. And I actually am relieved that I don't feel the urge to chase these women.
I have never had a session (but it is on my bucketlist), but I do support the sport and the art of bodybuilding as much as I can (sending money to select athletes, etc). And, as to women having as strong a sex drive as us men? Bring it on!!
@javi45- My friend, I wish I had remedy for such things....and since she is your current girlfriend I don't wish to judge her too harshly. But, if you have read my above responses, you'll know I firmly believe this notion that other people think its 'disgusting' needs to go. Part of the problem I feel also is that most people think all these athlete are on steroids (whether they are or not). But I don't know enough about it to dispel any myths just yet. But I am still doing as much research as I can to help clarify this issue.
Whatever the case, I would like to think that both of us know these women are nothing short of beautiful and the mainstream are just a bunch of duffers.
Please keep the responses coming! And please do challenge any of the points I have brought up.
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I'll bite - it's nobody's business really.
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Looks like my first sentence posted but nothing else... to expand:
It's nobody's business. I'm married and my wife knows what turns me on, so it's not like I'm out looking for a girlfriend and have to open up all the time. It just doesn't come up often and I don't offer.
The only few times it has come up naturally, I've said it doesn't bother me at all, which is partly true. If pressed I usually say I'm secure enough in my masculinity, which usually where it ends.
That's also said jokingly, because I'm a skinnyfat cubicle drone. I do not look intimidating.
I sort of downplay things with the wife, because she has a normal build and is self-conscious. I pretty much had to explain to her that muscles are just one thing that I like, even if they're a BIG one thing, and that I think normal women are perfectly attractive as well. After that she seemed to let go of her reservations about it. She's willing to indulge me, and before COVID she would tell me to "come feel this" after getting home from the gym once in a while on her own initiative if she noticed a change and felt frisky about it. So it's open in our relationship. It means the world to me that she's giving about it, and it's more of a turn on, not less, when she flexes her body for me because it's all mine, and she's doing it out of love. I don't press my luck. She wouldn't understand some of what I like (i.e. the really big and shredded girls), but it's just a fantasy, she doesn't have to. I'm 100% sure she has indecent thoughts about one James Fraser, and while I'm not threatened by that... women are different. There's just no reason to lay everything on her. If she asked me straight out I'd be honest with her, but I'd pick my words carefully.
Other people have really big hangups about this particular piece of human sexuality. I sort of keep it to myself out of respect for them, because most of them don't handle it well even if I do. But also because what people who aren't my wife think about my turn-ons doesn't matter a lot.
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an old saying and an old song : nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors.....
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Happy New Year everyone!!! May this new epoch shower sessions of delight and worship with powerful women on all of you!
Ok, here are my responses-
@bronx_bomberman - First off, it has to be said, the main point you bring up is probably one of the most important points (and one that all of us need to keep in mind) - that in NO way is the objective here to pressure women into taking up the sport.
Another point that I think is interesting is the idea of being open about it with your partner. The one relationship I had was an open relationship (where you're allowed to sleep with other people). But me being into buff girls was something she discovered accidentally and she was enamored by the gender-bending aspect of it, but felt a certain amount self-consciousness about her own body (since she was a twiglet). So navigating this kind of thing while in a long-term relationship is definitely not my forte (that relationship lasted 2 years).
But I am going to be totally honest with you....I have never truly been one for marriage. I am of the school of thought where I am not against it (and I wouldn't discourage people from it, because its good for raising a family) but it is one of those contracts where it is impossible to know all the fine print. Also (without going too in-depth with my thinking) sexual compatibility is a bedrock of the institution (and also why same-sex marriage is essential) but that is also a web of complexities I don't fully comprehend. And I am not saying I would never get married. I just don't play the dating game. I know how my friendships role, and if the person I am with is not on that level, I do not see marriage as something sustainable long-term (no matter how infatuated I might be).
So my basic point is - if you are in a long-term relationship, but you have this love for strong shredded ladies; I have no idea how it is possible to be open about this (unless you are with a buff beauty).
But now that I am mostly single, and have been chatting with some women on HBC for a good 2 years now; I have stopped feeling this frenzied intensity about muscular women (which is a relief). And now I am on the tack of "What would a world look like if this beauty standard was mainstream". And with that, a way of validating these women(and validating ourselves) without seeming like a bunch of drooling creeps. And I am not saying we can do it en-masse. But I do think part of that is to stop feeling ashamed about it (for me personally).
@I like strong women - I am actually a huge fan of country music, so I'm a bit embarrassed I had never heard this song before. So cheers for mentioning it!
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As always, keep the responses coming!!! I do have a lot more thoughts regarding this, so I will post them on this thread whenever I get the chance.
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I won't lie to you. Some women are very insecure and would not handle it well. Don't date badly insecure people - that solves a lot of problems up front.
When I told my wife about it many years ago, basically I said that this is hardwired, I didn't pick it, and it is just one thing on the spectrum of what I think is attractive (true). I don't like it to the exclusion of other things. I downplay the extremes, but I also don't act ashamed at all when she asks me what I want. Why should I be? Fundamentally what I want is her, because I love her.
Being matter-of-fact and nonchalant about it seems to work best. It's less threatening. "This is a thing I like, I know it's unusual. I like it about you too but I'm not going to force it on you because that'd be weird. You could use this to tease me if you want, and I'd go crazy for it, but you turn me on as it is and you don't have to."
Couples should have open dialogue about what they like anyway. Can't be overeager, but if this is something you like just be tactfully open about it.
Good luck out there.
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I certainly don't have any negative feelings about my attraction to muscular woman, and I'd rather call it a kink than a fetish, as that's a more positive AND accurate word for it.
But that said, it's not something I would advertise openly. That's not because it's shameful, but because sexual proclivities are private and are revealed in intimate situations.
Everybody's sexual habits can look equally tawdry when held up to the light, whether it's dressing up, anal, big tits, BDSM, etc even though they're all normal.
So no, "internalised homophobia" doesn't come into it for me. These are women and no matter how masculine they come, it's the fact that a woman can present like that which generates the thrill.
I have revealed my attraction to female strength to some women, when the time seemed right, and it has to be said they've given mixed reactions, but I tink that's down to their own bodily insecurities and the fact that they've also internalised the same societal gender ideas.
The majority of women don't want to physically dominate or emasculate men, because it makes them feel unfeminine.
I had one girlfriend tell me she thought I was gay, because I liked feeling her arms. She was a petite little thing with tight peaked little biceps, but she was clearly embarassed about her "big ugly arms", a remnant of a more tomboyish surfing lifestyle she'd left behind.
Another big strong one virtually threw me onto the bed on our first date, and on my second night in her bed we somehow got to wrestling, without every actually saying anything and she had the upper hand all the way but couldn't quite finish me off. Then she said something like "You seem to like this horseplay" and said I mustn't be trying that hard, and when I replied that I was she seemed to get a bit uneasy and soon let me win. Within a minute, she was opining that women should be women and men should be men!
She was a big heavy woman (she had at least 40 pounds on me and had also done some weight training) and rather than taking pride in her strength, what clearly went through her mind was that she'd overwhelmed me because she was too big and fat, and I think that's what was behind her sudden retreat into submissive girliness.
She'd squealed in delight a little earlier when I picked her up in a bearhug and said not many men could do that, so it wasn't as if I was some sort of wimp in the line up of macho men she'd dated either. Like I said, I think she just didn't know her strength and had body issues.
Both women were keen to keep dating me though, so it wasn't some big deal breaker and I've probably given their words more thought than they did.
Another one however was very pleased with herself at the fact that I got so hard when she picked me up in a bearhug and carried me a few steps.
She enquired gently about it as we lay in bed afterwards and I tried to brush it off lightly by just saying I hadn't realised how strong she was and it felt good. I don't think she quite got it, but she definitely liked that her stocky powerful body could excite me with its physical prowess.
She then got talking about how she used to be 140 pounds of muscle when she was fit but now she was a flabby 185 pounds and she wished she could get her old figure back, so she had a much more positive view of female strength.
It's interesting that secretkitten mentions genderbending, because I think that's definitely part of the kink, and it does capture something of the shock of role reversal I'd get just standing beside a big bodybuilder and displaying our bodies to each other.
I remember one big masculine fbb glibly throwing genderbending into a list of her hobbies on some website years ago, and my thought at the time was that it wasn't just her gender she was bending, but that of most men who encountered her too. Just as surely as a huge black star bends and warps the space around it.
So the embarassment about admitting to this kink may be due to the role-reversal aspect and the fact that these women trigger a submissive impulse in me (though I'm not really a sub or interested in BDSM) which are both feelings men aren't supposed to want or admit to in public. And both men and women often publically disapprove of women who look masculine.
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This is something that has been on my mind a lot the last few weeks. I actually came to recognize my attraction to muscular women pretty late in the game; I was in my late 30’s when I came across Diana the Valkyrie’s site on that new ‘internet’ thing, and it blew my mind. It got me drawing again, which has become a huge thing in my life. Doing muscular women art has actually helped me deal with my then-20 years old war PTSD (long story) and get back on track in life.
This art has been a very large part of my life those past 20 years, but I’ve almost never shared it with people IRL. The first time I did was at the beginning; I showed some drawings to a good friend, and he was shocked and pretty disgusted (and those were just fairly innocent pin-ups, mind you). It didn’t effect our relationship, but I felt uncomfortable and didn’t show it to another male friend till recently. Women are another thing - had no problem showing stuff to a good female friend (who was just fine with it). Significantly, I did NOT show it to her husband, who has been a close friend for many years.
So, a few weeks ago I showed a painting I did to one of my best friends - there was a funny story behind my creating it, and I showed it to accompany it. Now, this guy has been my friend for 43 years, and is one of the smartest, most generous and most open and liberal people I know (also a loving and supportive father to a lesbian woman). His reaction (via text message)? “Good god, how can you like this?! She looks like a man!”
I didn’t really react to this, and we haven’t talked about it since. But I have been thinking about it. I’m very lucky to have family and friends who love me - why wouldn’t I share this thing, which is so significant to me, with them? It’s not as if they see me as some paragon of normalcy. They are all aware of my struggles with PTSD, which has been effecting my life for decades, and have all been very supportive; why wouldn’t I share it with them? They only see the “normal” stuff I create, which is not a lot, and keep asking me why I don’t do more. I love my muscular female art, I’m proud of it - why can’t I share it with the people I love? What am I afraid of? Or is it the polite/decent thing to do - I will cause them disgust/discomfort, just so I’ll feel a little better about myself (which I probably won’t, anyway...)? They will NOT appreciate it, why bother them? So they’re not familiar with a segment of my life - who says they need to be?
Yup, quite the conundrum...
btw: I believe I would have no problem dating a muscular woman. I had a girlfriend in my university days who was a kayak rower and fairly buff; my friends couldn’t understand my attraction to her (and neither did I, apparently), but I was very happy and had no problem with appearances.
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Well...if you want to be around a group of guys and girls who almost all appreciate muscular women...join a good, competitive CrossFit gym. It's the only place I've found anywhere in 40+ years of searching that openly accept and even compliment muscular women.
No one makes comments like, "she looks like a man"...instead...it's like, "Damn dudes, Susie is jacked." and it's very complimentary...
I've dated 3 girls from Crossfit in the last 4 years, one petite fit girl and two that were very buff...i gave them all glowing compliments about their muscular physiques and they loved it. (however, my non-CrossFit friends and family made negative comments about them initially because of their muscles...why people are so jealous of this or for some reason are grossed out by muscular woman blows me away).
It's weird that we live in a world where you can date a fat chick and no one blinks an eye...you date a muscular chick and all of a sudden, everyone has a fucking opinion....oh well....my two cents...good luck out there.
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Well...if you want to be around a group of guys and girls who almost all appreciate muscular women...join a good, competitive CrossFit gym. It's the only place I've found anywhere in 40+ years of searching that openly accept and even compliment muscular women.
No one makes comments like, "she looks like a man"...instead...it's like, "Damn dudes, Susie is jacked." and it's very complimentary...
I've dated 3 girls from Crossfit in the last 4 years, one petite fit girl and two that were very buff...i gave them all glowing compliments about their muscular physiques and they loved it. (however, my non-CrossFit friends and family made negative comments about them initially because of their muscles...why people are so jealous of this or for some reason are grossed out by muscular woman blows me away).
It's weird that we live in a world where you can date a fat chick and no one blinks an eye...you date a muscular chick and all of a sudden, everyone has a fucking opinion....oh well....my two cents...good luck out there.
To your point I played in a co-ed charity slow softball tournament once a couple of years ago, players who were teens up to 50s or so. It was a round robin event, you keep playing until you lose once. We had an extended family squad but other teams were local businesses, county workers, etc. we got lucky and won two games but lost the third. As we left the field my cousin who is my age pointed at the next team coming over, an all-woman team of sanitation workers. They were all fit, not FBBs but they were buff, in form fitting uniforms and many were gorgeous. Some of the guys, like me, said, “Wow,” out of earshot of the sanitation workers. One of my single cousins said, “I’d like to slide into second base with one of them.” To which one of the older ladies of our family responded, “You’d never survive, any one of them would kill ya.” Everyone laughed, made a few jokes, but in general we all admired their looks. And... they could play softball. Maybe attitudes are changing. You never know.
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Most of my buddies know my preference. They might rib me about it once in a while, but i figure its fair game considering how much i make fun of them for complaining about things when they have kids. No one really asks about it, but I think that's because I told them "remember this, the amazons are what I tell you about freely. Just imagine the kinda shit I hold back"