Ironfire Deposit Return Refusal - Fair play or plain ripped off?

[shimmer1]

Hey Guys,

Interested in the general view here.

About 7 months ago Ironfire announced she was going to Australia for a few dates and I quickly locked in to have a 3 hour MW session, as she has long been someone admired in the muscles department. Exchange was as expected, fairly no nonsense, and got to deposit quickly. I agreed to send USD $500 as a deposit as she is well known, been doing it for a while and reviews were generally good. I did this because she already announced her trip, and the trip was 5 months out.

Sadly as work does sometimes get in the way of your life, I realised the dates were not going to work, about 4 weeks after booking due to conflicting calendar and i would need to be in Singapore. I wrote to Ironfire apologising but also noting that given it was 4 months until the actual planned session I hoped this would be OK and requested a refund.....Nothing...Silence...So another 2 weeks passed and I sent another note politely reminding her and then even saying, 'hey, you know what, happy to split it 50/50 as I took up your time through booking process, just send me back $250.

I then received an email apologising for the delay due to LM having flu but the upshot was, 'sorry mate, no refunds, nothing what so ever, please try to make the session'...

I read the email and just left it there for a month or two as I figured there was only two ways it would go, it would either get nasty and personal as she had very clearly made her position clear, or it would be a long drawn out shit fight and a lose lose situation for all involved, just over a couple of hundred bucks.

I am not getting into the intelligence of some of these sessioners who often clearly lack the business skills or customer service to motivate repeat business, what I am trying to get my head around is, based on the unwritten law has LM been fair to to do this, 4 months out to basically say, NO WAY you dont get a cent back or have I been completely screwed over by her and should I return to table and politely try again (expect zero response on that btw)

What it has done is ensure I will never again send a deposit and probably won't bother with a session, so maybe a blessing in disguise.

Just wondered what you guys would do it my situation here?

Thanks

Shimmer

[FBBMW]

When trips are announced well in advance, they may not be booked yet.  The girl may
wait until a certain number of bookings are agreed upon or deposits made.    Then they
book the trip.   At that point, cancelations hurt.     
 
Maybe she is so popular that she can afford to lose a customer and all the future
lost customers his bad review(s) generate.  Some of the girls don't think about the
future business considerations.   
 
Considering it was 4 months out, I feel it would have been fair to accept your offer
of a 50% refund or make it contingent on if she had enough bookings.   
Most businesses have some type of deposit %% refund up to 1 month out. 
I have had a business return my deposit, after a valid excuse, saying they are
not in business to profit on kept deposits.   
 
You could try to ask her to credit your deposit towards a future session. 
As a last resort, since she won't refund 1/2 your deposit and she coldly
said to keep your appointment, tell her your appointment is back on,
even if you can't make it.   That way she can't resell your spot.   
   
I admire the session girls, but we need to be fair with each other. 
Her outline on WB270 doesn't sound like the most friendly outline
on there and it's clear she is after big $$$.               
   
       
 

[Polite Society]

 Before going into detail, I want to make clear 50 per cent should have been accepted by LM. Every effort was made by shimmer1 to be fair.
   And now to play slight Devil's Advocate.
   In an age when it is harder for women to put together tours, Australia is not a hop over the ocean. As such, if you get a sizeable contribution towards it and especially someone paying $500 as a deposit, there is the belief (on her part) that the 3 hours happens. Without knowing because it's not been stated, I imagine 3 hours of IronFire runs to at least US$1000 given she is not likely to offer much in the way of discounts on an already high one -hour fee (I'm happy to be wrong).
   I would not expect someone booking so far out to have any reason to be backing out. If there was always the merest possibility that work would get in the way, 3 hours should not have been the suggested time. Do 2 tops and that way if you need to call it off, it's not 3 time slots she now needs to fill. I'd also say in this day and age anyone doing more than an hour is already in the minority but also seen as genuine.
   If shimmer's not going to pay another deposit due to this, why is there not the possibility that IronFire at some point determined she'd never refund another deposit because it backfired on her. I am not a great believer in deciding based on one bad experience that everyone else should suffer. That cuts both ways. How she treated you shouldn't mean you then do the same. I lost $500 years to someone pulling off something way worse than this but I gave her enough negative publicity that I think she'd admit she messed up. If she had a conscience.
    The bottom line is that 3 slots in the one city are hard to fill anywhere. Add in the fact she may have already paid for hotel with it and it's then she only views things as being $1000 down. Giving back $250 of that isn't really going to appeal. I fully support the view that is not being a businesswoman. I do genuinely think that they are not prevalent on the scene even if there are plenty of really nice women. They don't think ahead. They'll do a shoot over a session without realizing the session generates way more potential income that a one-time photographer's payment. Never understood that.
   I helped out someone from Saradas late last year when a deposit was not going to be returned for the most ridiculous reason. In that instance, she and I had a mutual friend who knew that anyone I endorsed would not be a guy trying to pull any shyt. I don't unfortunately sense that all women are approachable on this.
   Asking Shimmer to try to make the session wasn't really that cold. It's just how black and white that IronFire sees it. Each to their own.

[tonyjungle]

I agree with Polite Society's sentiment on this. All I can add is that I contacted Ironfire when she came to NY a couple of years ago, heard her hourly fee (I forgot what it was/is at the moment) and politely said I couldn't afford it at the time. She then countered by saying that if I came toward the end of one of her days in town, and wanted a half hour, she could do it for less. I always wanted to meet her and said yes. She was gorgeous, just like her pix, funny and very nice. The session, between actual muscle worship etc. and just talking was over the half hour. Six months or a year later she came back to town, I contacted her and she remembered me. Offered me the same deal and I accepted since I had to fit her schedule. Same nice session. Yes, the lady is more expensive than most and she wants the cash. That's fine. Could she be more flexible? Sure. But Australia, is not a "local" trip like NY which is my guess as to why she took a hard line on this. 

[Emil]

Hmm, well i don't know. I believe that the best for all would be that LM would accept shimmer offer and return half his deposit.

What did LM do for those 3 hours? Is she took another session or waiting for the shimmer to show? I don't want to be in a possition that after long drive i couldn't take the session becouse a person who cancelled showed.

And for LM, she could loosing money becouse she didn't accept any additional customer for booking a possible no show person.

Obviously she decided that she Will have enough customers (and making enough money) even if somebody won't show with his payed deposit.

[Duke69]

If she couldn't fill those 3 hours in 3 months in advance of her visit she shouldn't have made the trip.  I think she should have refunded 100 percent of the deposit with that much lead time.    I would never pay a deposit, but for those of you that do I have this advice.  If you find yourself in a similar circumstance to the OP and she refuses to refund the deposit tell her you have changed plans and will make the session.    that way she won't book someone else in your time and make a double profit at your expense.  It will give her something to stew about as she sits there for 3 hours wondering where you are.

[OrangeCountyCalifornia]

That's a shame regarding Ironfire/LM.  She was my last session in June 2013 before I was ripped off my deposit by PT/Fon.  I had a pretty good experience with Ironfiire even though she was a little pricey.

[boyofwinter]

I feel sorry for the op and agree that, as much as she might not want to for entirely understandable financial reasons, she should've agreed to the $250.
That being said, as PS pointed out the promise of a 3 hour session today is enough to get a lady to significantly alter her plans - most likely end up with less cash at the end of a trip than you might think. Whereas hotels offering cash-on-check-in has gotten to be a fairly common practice here, I suspect it's less common in Aus. Also, most airlines have stopped offering cash back in favour of value transfer. She may have booked on an airline that other than this trip would not be of much use to her.
Without seeing the whole email exchange it's impossible to know how much info was sent back and forth. 'How much response have you gotten already? How much of the trip have you booked or are you floating a balloon?' These are questions I ask when I'm inquiring to a lady about an intl trip (travel within Europe is an exception for obvious reasons).
It seems to me from his post that the op's work situation is such that there was a significant chance he might end up missing the session. I would've told her that I desired a 3 hour session but could only deposit based on 1 hour because of the above reason. If it turned out that I could see her but it ended up that I'd have to drive to another city to do so for her having more attention there, so be it.
Most ladies regard deposits not as a client showing interest, but as a promise to appear and therefore a first instalment of their session fee. This is necessary for being able to plan trips. It's helpful to keep this in mind.

[unoquellega]

Mostly, I agree that cancelling with so much time ahead should warrant a total refund, and that the 50/50 offer from shimmer1 is more than reasonable.

With Ironfire's reply, the only solution for shimmer1 would be to resell the 3-hour session to someone else, even at a reduced price, so he can get some cash back.

[Polite Society]

Mostly, I agree that cancelling with so much time ahead should warrant a total refund, and that the 50/50 offer from shimmer1 is more than reasonable.

With Ironfire's reply, the only solution for shimmer1 would be to resell the 3-hour session to someone else, even at a reduced price, so he can get some cash back.

   I wouldn't say it couldn't work but it would need to be run by IronFire first. Who would want someone else turning up that she had not booked with?

[tonyjungle]

I agree.

[flexcam]

This is why people should work with contracts.

In entertainment, it's very normal for an event organizer to lose 100% of his deposit if he cancels the date. However, up to 3 months ahead, leniency is usually given.

Now since you don't have a contract, you are probably shit out of luck. However, maybe you can "sell" your booked session to someone else.

[deerfott]

This is why people should work with contracts. /quote]

A contact? Do you know what happens during sessions?

[trojangambit]

Ironfire is a rip off to me. Coming back to my area would not advise seeing her! Very pricey session and talked the entire hour! See her if you want but be warned!

[Polite Society]

Ironfire is a rip off to me. Coming back to my area would not advise seeing her! Very pricey session and talked the entire hour! See her if you want but be warned!

  The time to be stating they are talking too much is there and then. Maybe it's nerves created by the vibe being given off by you because you couldn't reconcile spending that much. They are entertaining you for an hour so you get to change it up.