Female Masculinity killing Womens Bodybuilding?

[Tomcat1978]

We all know Women Bodybuilding has been dying off for awhile now between the removal of BIG contests and decline in sponsorship for the woman. Even the local shows push the Womans Bodybuilding classes to the end of the shows. The word "Femininity" is also thrown around alot with decline of Womens BB. So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

[jstans]

We all know Women Bodybuilding has been dying off for awhile now between the removal of BIG contests and decline in sponsorship for the woman. Even the local shows push the Womans Bodybuilding classes to the end of the shows. The word "Femininity" is also thrown around alot with decline of Womens BB. So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

My thoughts are...you're a sucker.

[VegasAce]

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

[Old Surehand]

We all know Women Bodybuilding has been dying off for awhile now between the removal of BIG contests and decline in sponsorship for the woman. Even the local shows push the Womans Bodybuilding classes to the end of the shows. The word "Femininity" is also thrown around alot with decline of Womens BB. So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

I think your post is inaccurate. First of all, the Women's Bodybuilding division is growing. More contests are featuring Women's bodybuilding than they have in years. Even the Olympia is bringing female bodybuilding back. As with any show, the main event is always presented last. The only hindrance to these shows is the Covid-19 virus. All the major shows would have have more participation, if it wasn't for this pandemic. I also think this thread is a waste because this subject has been covered in so many other  threads. This sport always had lesbians. How they dress and live their private lives shouldn't be your concern. It's what's onstage that counts. The bald ones wear wigs onstage anyway.

[herbiceps]

We all know Women Bodybuilding has been dying off for awhile now between the removal of BIG contests and decline in sponsorship for the woman. Even the local shows push the Womans Bodybuilding classes to the end of the shows. The word "Femininity" is also thrown around alot with decline of Womens BB. So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

Your post from got lost and just showed up.

[GLKnight]

We all know Women Bodybuilding has been dying off for awhile now between the removal of BIG contests and decline in sponsorship for the woman. Even the local shows push the Womans Bodybuilding classes to the end of the shows. The word "Femininity" is also thrown around alot with decline of Womens BB. So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

Short answer: NO, and you're absolutely, verifiably WRONG.

More contests are diversifying the field, and that includes expansion of the upper weight and size categories. Blaming it on how women look is like blaming porn stars for getting plastic surgery. Blaming it on lesbians is also text book misogyny as well as homophobic and transphobic for the exact context you put it under regarding "wanting to look like men". Women come in different shapes, sizes, sexual orientations and appearance/identities. And trying to dictate what is and isn't "feminine" or "masculine" only adds to the decades of misunderstanding and insults and misalignment that have been angled at female bodybuilders like a dagger in the heart of the sport.

Your opinions are bad, and you should feel bad.

[87fg]

I think that  women's bodybuilding is undergoing a renaissance. It was speculated that other divisions were created to phase out the muscular physique of women. Instead the reverse happened. Fitness , physique, and figure women are looking much bigger today. I think even bikini women will  get bigger too. Women have more classes than the men, so it is clear that it is marketable. The notion that "masculinity" is killing women's bodybuilding is false. Everyone has their own idea of what the ideal physique is. It's just now many versions of it can exist under one roof. Muscular women are not masculine. Unless you think that sports is solely a male domain, then you could make that argument. The real problem here is that the wider society does not accept women who look different. Basically, in general society wants to impose conformity.

[Timmon]

To clarify, we are discussing Women's Bodybuilding Division, IFBB / NPC. Not Bodybuilding in general, which includes any woman who trains to increase muscle, whether they intend to compete or not, and if they do, regardless of division, ie, Bikini Athletes are bodybuilders. Hard for some to swallow, some don't even think Physique competitors should move up to FBB division, let alone win a Bodybuilding Division contest! 

You have to go back to the 1980's and even a bit before. Female Bodybuilding emerged from marketing.
The Weiders, and then many training equipment companies and supplement companies, saw a potential 50% of their market missing. Or a 50% opportunity for the taking. Women. Men were the only market they had aimed for previously. Thus, Women like Rachel McLish appeared and were promoted heavily.
Things started slowly, women hesitated to even train for any sport with weights, lifting weights would be considered a masculine thing to do up to the late 1970's.

In the 80's things started to get interesting, with Bodybuilding contests gathering pace, but then women like Bev Francis appeared, who wanted to win with sheer muscle, over an acceptable slightly more than toned look.
The marketing people were shocked, Bev was frowned upon, and marked down many places. This was repeated many times with other athletes, the IFBB were trying to moderate extreme development, and keep a marketable sport for the advertisers and promoters.

But things started to slide. Where even padded bikini's were disallowed in the 1980's, and only plain colours, no sequins etc,  in the 90's and new millennium, change happened a pace. Bigger, more ripped, cosmetic surgery, less PED regulation, etc. A few rebalances were attempted. Less ripped look, and attempt again to downsize the women, but the size creep continued.

Then we get to the last years of the MS O.  FBB was considered the top division to aspire to up to then, but the extreme size was not attracting support from the promoters, the women were not marketable to mainstream clients. In the early years, new women appeared every contest. In the last years of the first Ms O era, few new women wanted to get that big, a large gap between Figure and FBB had appeared, the jump up divisions was too much for new athletes to make.
Also, there was concern for the welfare of the women. Taking PEDS without the right instruction, when you don't know what you are doing, is very dangerous. The IFBB has a duty of care for it's athletes.
If women chose to take PEDS and get massive to satisfy their needs, and  the needs of schmoes, that is there concern. But to win a contest, that should concern the IFBB / NPC. Period.

So the FBB was dropped from IFBB / NPC in favour of Physique. Some FBB's downsized to compete, but an FBB Physique does not downsize very well.  Even Figure girls Like Lyndsey Cope, with an outstanding symmetrical shape, were considered too big for Physique.  Some fans still seem in denial of Physique Division. I firmly believe FBB would have been set back years without Physique to keep the interest there, and create the new athletes we see today breathing new life and talent into the now growing again FBB division.

But athletes will always want to run faster, lift heavier, be better. So Physique in 2015 on was already coming of age, with women as big or bigger than amateur bodybuilders were in 2010.

And by 2015 FBB was coming back. Not because of supplement companies this time, but because of fan pressure, big investment and drive from Tim Gardner, and the support of Jim Manion among many others, support the IFBB Elite organisation are yet to offer Female Bodybuilders.  Now we have, something that seemed unlikely 10 years ago, the return of the Ms O. A new opportunity for new athletes, and a chance to also see some of the recent greats of the sport.       Now is the right time for FBB to return, and is should be the top contest that athletes aspire to, should they decide to move through the ranks from Bikini, right up to FBB.
I hope that lessons from the past are learnt, and FBB goes from strength to strength, whilst ensuring fair play and concern for athletes health. As much as you can do, anyway, because FBB is not a healthy sport to be in.

Certainly, many companies now rely on the sport, which, strangely, is probably a good thing to ensure it continues. From simple plain coloured  bikini's in the 1980's and 90's, now highly decorated bikini's, with multi colours and sequins are allowed. These cost upwards of $350 a suit. Make up is important, hair pieces are expensive. Go to Figure and Bikini, you add on special shoes as well. There is a lot more money in the women's sport now,  than the Weiders ever imagined. Let alone all the supplements and equipment and training, coaching for posing, make up,  physio, gym clothing and membership, it takes a lot of money to get a woman on stage. A man buys a pair of trunks or shorts of you are in men's Physique.

Regarding sexuality, all sports should welcome all. Tennis has many lesbians, for example, so is women's tennis masculine? No.

Wigs? Many women in FBB wear them. It is a fact of taking PED's. Same as being treated for cancer. Some people are lucky not to have much hair loss, others lose a lot. Wigs can be very expensive, so shaving the head is an option, rather than appear with a very receded hairline. It does not necessarily indicate sexuality. Many women are very careful not to appear on Inst@gram showing their hair while training, others do.  At Physique and FBB level, assume most athletes have hair loss and hair gain in other areas, it is quite normal.

I don't see these issues as damaging to the sport, it is progress, it is change. Without change, there is no interest, no evolution.

There is no decline in women's bodybuilding overall when you include all divisions. The FBB Division almost disappeared, but now it is growing again, thanks to the new Physique athletes that now have somewhere to move up to, if that is what they want. And Physique continues to be fuelled by Figure athletes moving up, etc.

[Butt kisser]

.So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

Tom, I don't believe the masculine inflation is 'killing the sport', but I do think it increases it's marginalization. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, that female bodybuilding has a niche appeal. But I think when the athletes looked more like Cory Everson & Rachel McLish it was proven that they had more broad appeal & commercial opportunity (acting roles, industry endorsements, etc). I really don't think the sport itself is suffering because the women are getting more macho.
Something I find ironic tho.. Western women keep moving more & more into masculine cultural roles, and it's largely celebrated.. except for muscle building. It seems like an odd exception (?) Seems a lot of people (both genders) are resentful or repulsed by musclebound women.

[jstans]

.So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport? Is it contributing to the total decline of Womens BB?

Thoughts

Tom, I don't believe the masculine inflation is 'killing the sport', but I do think it increases it's marginalization. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, that female bodybuilding has a niche appeal. But I think when the athletes looked more like Cory Everson & Rachel McLish it was proven that they had more broad appeal & commercial opportunity (acting roles, industry endorsements, etc). I really don't think the sport itself is suffering because the women are getting more macho.
Something I find ironic tho.. Western women keep moving more & more into masculine cultural roles, and it's largely celebrated.. except for muscle building. It seems like an odd exception (?) Seems a lot of people (both genders) are resentful or repulsed by musclebound women.

Now THIS is a good point. I've seen something similar, BK. While I do think the mainstream isn't swinging all the way to  to eliminating of gender stereotypes (women's jeans still have shitty tiny pockets), it's w annoying to me that women's exercise and weightlifting is still marketed at "toning" and " firming"

[vivel]

So Im wondering if anyone else feels that "Female Masculinity" is killing the sport even more?  Seeing more Lesbians in the sport with shaven heads, posing and dressing like men in pictures and on stage, basically wanting to be men but still competing in Womans Bodybuilding. Is that really fair to the sport?

It is not fair, because it kills femininity, sensuality, feminine essence, attraction, glamor, sexy, tenderness, sweetness, the delicacy of women.
This sport, unlike others, is a sexualized sport. If not, this forum would not be successful. So it is extremely relevant, what is related to sexual identity.
They would have to make a different category, because they are different. A category where masculinized women are valued. That type of woman also has her followers, and deserves her own space.

[posecrab]

Dave Palumbo from © Saradas just recently talked to Helle Trevino and Theresa Ivancik about combining both female bodybuilding and women's physique as one class.

[Timmon]

Dave Palumbo from © Saradas just recently talked to Helle Trevino and Theresa Ivancik about combining both female bodybuilding and women's physique as one class.

It would make some sense, now Women's Bodybuilding is back with genuine support, the decline of 12 years ago over. Women's Physique was the "reset button" for the flexing side of bodybuilding, and it has done that part of the job, while the world and sponsors had time to catch up with extreme muscularity in women. The juggling act will be to ensure that women have divisions to pass through on their way to the top, the top being Bodybuilding once more.
If the gap from , say Figure (as it used to be) to Bodybuilding division becomes too wide, the problems will start again.  WP served that gap well, although largely, Bodybuilding was almost gone for a while on stage.

Now, they need to sort out the incentives too. Prize money for Physique being less than Figure is just not right. Bodybuilding needs to be the top of the sport, or at least level with other divisions, or it will never get full respect within the sport.

[governor]

Something I find ironic tho.. Western women keep moving more & more into masculine cultural roles, and it's largely celebrated.. except for muscle building. It seems like an odd exception (?) Seems a lot of people (both genders) are resentful or repulsed by musclebound women.

And facial hair on women too.

[knufflschmoe]

no its the opposite :
nowaday much more sensitivity towards maintaining femininity ..! mostly ,with exceptions

steroid abuse seemed much more rude without regarding side effect at the beginning area of bodybuilding ,lets say the 80´s