Forum Saradas
Webcam Chat Sessions => Female Bodybuilding - Athletic Women - Muscular Girls => Topic started by: kostas on March 16, 2017, 11:47:12 pm
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ISSUE 1. Hey guys i have joined ISABELLE AMELIE'S fanclub and did a pvt show with her some months ago. Today she sent us [her fanclub members} a message that it was saying ''the worst site in the worls now with the most inactive mens". Who does she think she is;; Have some hbc models go crazy;; Why does hbc have models with such a bad behaviour; Personally i left her fanclub and will never ever see her either on free.
ISSUE 2. Some models write on their profiles that they dont want in the beginnng of the private show , messages like hi, can you flex your biceps ;
What do they mean ; Do they mean that we have to write 10 minutes about ourselves and then she can flex for me for two minutes ; I was thinking that since i pay for the first second of the private show, i am the one who decides if wants many words or just after 1 minute of an introduction[ the names and country only] we start the flexes..
What do you think about this two things;;
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i agree with #2 totally, if the flexing doesn't start fast and it's all chatter, i leave
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Muscleandcurves has a similar silly policy of no topless unless you spend like 15+ minutes in one-on-one or something.
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Isabelle works harder than 90 percent if the girls on HBC. She gives a great show and is always fun and perky. That is my observation on her.
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A lot of these women don't see their selves as traditional "cam models". Meaning they simply refuse to accept the fact that they're primarily there for sexual reasons. This leads to females thinking they can chat your money away or don't have to put on a show. This leads me to believe that HBC is not telling them the realities of what they're getting into.
Secondly, all these women care about is your money, don't get fooled and believe otherwise for a second.
That said, just don't spend your money on women who pose for 1 minute and try to talk the rest of the way.
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This is correct. I've seen some of the herbiceps IG posts to recruit girls for webcam where they try to advertise it as a classy thing, showing a picture of Oana or someone, saying she makes $20k per year or $50k per year or whatever it is.
I remember Charliejay telling people on cam that her roommates were making fun of her for doing "muscle porn." Only it wasn't a joke, that's what it was. I think it used to be much cleaner many years ago, but it turned very sexual. That made them more money, so they were OK with it. And should they tell the girls the truth? Their goal is to make money. Typically when someone complains about poor service on the HB forums, Mike just responds "vote with your wallet" instead of dealing with the problematic models. I'm sure Femflex will come in and tell us how customer-oriented they are, but they did reduce the deposit bonuses, do let models hide in pay chat, and still allow women like Strongmichelle to work there.
Anyway, usually the eastern europeans are the worst as far as time-wasting and all that. The Americans tend to at least try.
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Wow, I have seen Isabelle before and she does put on a good show, and is smoking hot. But that puts me off a little. Poor form on her behalf. I do know she is one of the performers who is on like three or four sites at the same time too. That is just bad for business.
I have had the experience of someone saying something in the lines of, "I hate it when guys come in and just say to flex my biceps, please don't be one of those guys." Ummmmmmm, if that is what they are paying for in premium, then that is theirs to ask. Seriously. That bothers me, sometimes I don't mind chatting, it depends on the performer, but if that is all they want to do, then I just wont spend money on the performer anymore. "vote with your wallet" is valid at times. I think Femflex would be more likely to say to have you email them and they will talk with the performer. They cannot monitor every single thing that happens on the site first hand, they need consumer feedback to help them with most issues.
As far as the muscle porn comment, and the not seeing themselves as traditional "cam models." I agree sadly. When HBC first started, I think it was in 2006, they did not allow nudity. The set out to set themselves apart in that way. Over the course of time it became more of a look the other way policy, then officially allowing. I would say the first short while it was around it was a different site, that wasn't necessarily "muscle porn" or a traditional cam site, but it has evolved into something different. I am not the one to judge whether it is good or bad, it just is. To me it is a pre=paid cam site that specializes in performers that range from fit women to bodybuilders.
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Just read the topics about Strongmichelle. She's apparently a con artist who has successfully squeezed a ton of money out of people and lied about selling videos or whatever. I remember when she first started, it would be "plz add just a little more" or she'd start begging for tips when you were already in one-on-one, paying $7/minute. Ideally, the guys would be smart enough to just leave, but they become addicted and the girls know this. That's why it works. It is the responsibility of the business owners to kick out dishonest employees. Or the other eastern europeans who complain they only get half the money you spend, so you need to tip them. Or read up on the session forums and see how addicted some people get. Some guys seem to have sessioned with basically every girl out there, and within days of a new girl showing up on the session scene, are already trying to schedule a new session. Regardless, it's pretty irresponsible to have a bunch of people complain about your model on your forums and just say "vote with your wallet" instead of "please email us with specific details, we'll look into it."
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Have chatted with Isabelle before many times. Her physique is amazing and she certainly knows how to give you a hard on. But yes she is impatient and does have a bit of an attitude. As long as are able/willing to look past that, she's fine.
As for having certain policies, I think that's fine provided its made known in advance. Like if one doesn't do nude for any price, then the profile page should say no nude or no topless. With regards to not posing in one-on-one until you tip her, that sucks. I mean this is HBC for crying out loud so if you're not gonna pose what are you doing here? And one-on-one is already the most expensive category so what else do you expect? A big fat tip when you are already getting paid by the second? :-[
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Yeah it's pretty funny. I don't like the whole tipping thing anyway. I think private is a better situation. When I see guys tipping a girl 10 credits in free chat for a flex, I just think wow, a whole dollar, no wonder some of the girls get negative attitudes working on here. I don't know anything about isabelle, just speaking generally.
The no nudity thing is a fine policy, I respect it. Of course many times that turns into "nudity/topless for certain clients she knows well enough," which is pretty much the same thing as "only topless after x minutes." But my connection cut out one time with muscleandcurves, and she still didn't go topless in one-on-one when I came back. At least she's fairly honest though, unlike michelle "oh yeah i do topless come one on one ... just kidding lol i'm not taking my top off"
Still, it's better than some of the other cam sites. I remember I found a relatively muscular girl on a regular cam site, and I asked her to pec flex and she said "and what I get for that?" (meaning she wanted me to give her a $100 tip on top of the private cost). If anything, flexing should be so preferred on the regular cam sites anyway, since I wasn't even asking them to masturbate the way most people do there.
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This is correct. I've seen some of the herbiceps IG posts to recruit girls for webcam where they try to advertise it as a classy thing, showing a picture of Oana or someone, saying she makes $20k per year or $50k per year or whatever it is.
I remember Charliejay telling people on cam that her roommates were making fun of her for doing "muscle porn." Only it wasn't a joke, that's what it was. I think it used to be much cleaner many years ago, but it turned very sexual. That made them more money, so they were OK with it. And should they tell the girls the truth? Their goal is to make money. Typically when someone complains about poor service on the HB forums, Mike just responds "vote with your wallet" instead of dealing with the problematic models. I'm sure Femflex will come in and tell us how customer-oriented they are, but they did reduce the deposit bonuses, do let models hide in pay chat, and still allow women like Strongmichelle to work there.
Anyway, usually the eastern europeans are the worst as far as time-wasting and all that. The Americans tend to at least try.
I have to agree with Mike on that. Yes, ideally they should set better standards, but they won't. All of these things we constantly complain about would have been fixed a long time ago had we voted with our wallets. In the end, the community is to blame for supporting women and a platform that doesn't support them.
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This is correct. I've seen some of the herbiceps IG posts to recruit girls for webcam where they try to advertise it as a classy thing, showing a picture of Oana or someone, saying she makes $20k per year or $50k per year or whatever it is.
I remember Charliejay telling people on cam that her roommates were making fun of her for doing "muscle porn." Only it wasn't a joke, that's what it was. I think it used to be much cleaner many years ago, but it turned very sexual. That made them more money, so they were OK with it. And should they tell the girls the truth? Their goal is to make money. Typically when someone complains about poor service on the HB forums, Mike just responds "vote with your wallet" instead of dealing with the problematic models. I'm sure Femflex will come in and tell us how customer-oriented they are, but they did reduce the deposit bonuses, do let models hide in pay chat, and still allow women like Strongmichelle to work there.
Anyway, usually the eastern europeans are the worst as far as time-wasting and all that. The Americans tend to at least try.
I have to agree with Mike on that. Yes, ideally they should set better standards, but they won't. All of these things we constantly complain about would have been fixed a long time ago had we voted with our wallets. In the end, the community is to blame for supporting women and a platform that doesn't support them.
I mean, the whole point of this (and other forms of porn) is to get you addicted. That's why people often don't vote with their wallet. If you want to continue to exploit people in that way instead of doing your best to offer the best possible product, go ahead. Either way, the way they deal with these problems isn't really a surprise, given that they hire extremely slow-working foreign developers and continue to host their main site with diana***** even though they know it's an insecure website that keeps clients' credit card numbers and steals money via fake companies.
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I used to be a regular on the old site but due to some life circumstances, and also some things on the new site, i haven't been back much.
I've also been in with some of the women who won't do much in private or even 1:1, and even if I ask a bunch they'll just talk out the credits. I get if they don't do topless I'm happy to still spend the money but don't get it twisted.
There are very few women on the site that I actually want to chat with on the regular, and they are the ones I will now wait to spend credits on. It's a short list, and it's difficult to catch them, but it's always worth it when I do, because I know what i'm getting.
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This is correct. I've seen some of the herbiceps IG posts to recruit girls for webcam where they try to advertise it as a classy thing, showing a picture of Oana or someone, saying she makes $20k per year or $50k per year or whatever it is.
I remember Charliejay telling people on cam that her roommates were making fun of her for doing "muscle porn." Only it wasn't a joke, that's what it was. I think it used to be much cleaner many years ago, but it turned very sexual. That made them more money, so they were OK with it. And should they tell the girls the truth? Their goal is to make money. Typically when someone complains about poor service on the HB forums, Mike just responds "vote with your wallet" instead of dealing with the problematic models. I'm sure Femflex will come in and tell us how customer-oriented they are, but they did reduce the deposit bonuses, do let models hide in pay chat, and still allow women like Strongmichelle to work there.
Anyway, usually the eastern europeans are the worst as far as time-wasting and all that. The Americans tend to at least try.
I have to agree with Mike on that. Yes, ideally they should set better standards, but they won't. All of these things we constantly complain about would have been fixed a long time ago had we voted with our wallets. In the end, the community is to blame for supporting women and a platform that doesn't support them.
I mean, the whole point of this (and other forms of porn) is to get you addicted. That's why people often don't vote with their wallet. If you want to continue to exploit people in that way instead of doing your best to offer the best possible product, go ahead. Either way, the way they deal with these problems isn't really a surprise, given that they hire extremely slow-working foreign developers and continue to host their main site with diana***** even though they know it's an insecure website that keeps clients' credit card numbers and steals money via fake companies.
Addicted to what? Being ripped off? Either you're getting what you want for your money or you're not. If you're not, then there's nothing to be addicted to. Either way, we can talk about the way things should be or operate within reality. No amount of complaining is going to change their ways. Them losing money and customers is the only solution. If you're recording your cam sessions there's no need to go back anyway. For what? To see the same girl do the same poses in the same condition. It's pointless, just go back and watch your old stuff. Don't make yourself powerless. If you really feel that way about them why give them your money? Addicted? No one is addicted to porn itself, they're addicted to what porn leads to. Which you don't need to buy new stuff for that.
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Also, I'm not trying to come down on you or anyone else. I'm just being realistic about the solution. If you care enough about it, that's the solution.
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The addiction I referenced is a more general thing, I'm not being specific to hbc. For example, one might be addicted to wrestling videos. There's logically no reason to subscribe to utopia's site for more than one month. Every new video is more or less the same as the old videos, just slightly different girls/guys, whatever. (As an aside, grappling girls is the strongmichelle of wrestling websites: they lie in their descriptions and don't post any video previews, roping you into making purchases you regret. I assume they're still in business largely because people are addicted.) Or they might be addicted to "interactive porn" via webcam. Once it's recorded, it's no longer the same as live entertainment. Or they might get addicted to real entertainment they get at a strip club, or to sessions. It provides a high, much like drugs or alcohol. You can see how addicted some guys are to these things. There are guys on here who have apparently sessioned with basically every woman on the planet, or chat with every single new girl on hbc immediately. They get a rush.
I'm also not saying hbc is a rip-off, only that certain women are clearly dishonest there and those specific women rip you off. Among all the cam sites out there, hbc is the best at giving you refunds for entering an empty waiting room, or if you lose money because of connection problems (on a different site, they tried to guilt me by saying "keep in mind this will hurt the girl financially" as if me paying to see an empty room is somehow acceptable or doesn't hurt me financially). But IMO when you have a dozen customers on your public forums saying "michelle is a con artist," to dismiss that with "vote with your wallet" instead of "we're looking into it" is clearly a sign that they care only about money, and not their customers (or the fact that they continue to work with ***** instead of using a service like CCBill that is secure and doesn't steal from customers). Michelle is evidently tricking a nontrivial number of guys into throwing money at her. Or was, I have no idea if she's still active. I haven't talked to her in a long time, but I vaguely recall she was very good at dragging what should be done in 5 minutes into a 30-minute private. It's easy to sit back and judge people for making poor decisions, but there's a reason con artists succeed.
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I mean, the whole point of this (and other forms of porn) is to get you addicted. That's why people often don't vote with their wallet. If you want to continue to exploit people in that way instead of doing your best to offer the best possible product, go ahead. Either way, the way they deal with these problems isn't really a surprise, given that they hire extremely slow-working foreign developers and continue to host their main site with diana***** even though they know it's an insecure website that keeps clients' credit card numbers and steals money via fake companies.
[What do you mean by saying they steal money via fake companies and keep client credit card numbers; Are you sure about that and has that happened to you; I use credit card, and if than happens really, i will never ever buy credits from this site. Please be more specific in your reply so we can know too, what you mean. thanks
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Not the HBC site, the regular herbiceps site. Actually, any site hosted on diana***** (hb, femflex, collegeflex, ...). There have been other threads documenting this, so I won't derail this thread too much, but I won't join herbiceps.com again because I know there's a 100% chance I'll get fraudulent charges on my card, will have to dispute them and cancel my card. I once tried signing up using a prepaid card so they couldn't steal, and lo and behold, diana declined the transaction, I wonder why...
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Not the HBC site, the regular herbiceps site. Actually, any site hosted on diana***** (hb, femflex, collegeflex, ...). There have been other threads documenting this, so I won't derail this thread too much, but I won't join herbiceps.com again because I know there's a 100% chance I'll get fraudulent charges on my card, will have to dispute them and cancel my card. I once tried signing up using a prepaid card so they couldn't steal, and lo and behold, diana declined the transaction, I wonder why...
so you are not talking about herbicepscam.com site. Ok. I dont have any experience on herbiceps site , i only use herbicepscam'S site . By the way does anyone know if i can buy as many credits as i want, for example 10 instead 0f 25 as it is on the category ''buy credits''. I havent undertand why i must only buy credits for 25 dollars, or for 50 dollars, and not as many or less than that i want.
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their pay scale is pretty standard for a lot of things. 25/50/100, etc.
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diana***** even though they know it's an insecure website that keeps clients' credit card numbers and steals money via fake companies.
Not the HBC site, the regular herbiceps site. Actually, any site hosted on diana***** (hb, femflex, collegeflex, ...). There have been other threads documenting this, so I won't derail this thread too much, but I won't join herbiceps.com again because I know there's a 100% chance I'll get fraudulent charges on my card
Fake news.
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But IMO when you have a dozen customers on your public forums saying "michelle is a con artist," to dismiss that with "vote with your wallet" instead of "we're looking into it" is clearly a sign that they care only about money, and not their customers
"Some guy on the internet said" is not actual evidence. We've been very clear in stating that we don't want our site being used as a vehicle to commit fraud, but unless and until we receive reports from customers who give us specific details that can be investigated, it's unreasonable to state "those guys don't care about customers!" because we didn't set someone on fire over allegations that have never been outlined to us. Of course you can say whatever you want or whatever you feel, but if you believe a specific model has defrauded you, why aren't you communicating the details of that to us? Sure, I'll visit the boards a few times a week, but we're monitoring our customer service inbox daily. Regardless of whom you're doing business with, contacting a company directly is almost always the best way to tackle any issues.
help@herbicepscam.com
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Not fake news. I have the credit card statements to prove it. I have had to cancel my credit card multiple times in the past, only because of herbiceps signups. I have had real money stolen from me. There's no reason not to use CCBill. I'm not the only one this has happened to.
Typical response. Of course you should want very specific details, but to be dismissive with your customers is bad business. It's clear you just care about money, which is why Michelle is allowed to do what she does. The correct response is "please email us with details," not "vote with your wallet."
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The addiction I referenced is a more general thing, I'm not being specific to hbc. For example, one might be addicted to wrestling videos. There's logically no reason to subscribe to utopia's site for more than one month. Every new video is more or less the same as the old videos, just slightly different girls/guys, whatever. (As an aside, grappling girls is the strongmichelle of wrestling websites: they lie in their descriptions and don't post any video previews, roping you into making purchases you regret. I assume they're still in business largely because people are addicted.) Or they might be addicted to "interactive porn" via webcam. Once it's recorded, it's no longer the same as live entertainment. Or they might get addicted to real entertainment they get at a strip club, or to sessions. It provides a high, much like drugs or alcohol. You can see how addicted some guys are to these things. There are guys on here who have apparently sessioned with basically every woman on the planet, or chat with every single new girl on hbc immediately. They get a rush.
I'm also not saying hbc is a rip-off, only that certain women are clearly dishonest there and those specific women rip you off. Among all the cam sites out there, hbc is the best at giving you refunds for entering an empty waiting room, or if you lose money because of connection problems (on a different site, they tried to guilt me by saying "keep in mind this will hurt the girl financially" as if me paying to see an empty room is somehow acceptable or doesn't hurt me financially). But IMO when you have a dozen customers on your public forums saying "michelle is a con artist," to dismiss that with "vote with your wallet" instead of "we're looking into it" is clearly a sign that they care only about money, and not their customers (or the fact that they continue to work with ***** instead of using a service like CCBill that is secure and doesn't steal from customers). Michelle is evidently tricking a nontrivial number of guys into throwing money at her. Or was, I have no idea if she's still active. I haven't talked to her in a long time, but I vaguely recall she was very good at dragging what should be done in 5 minutes into a 30-minute private. It's easy to sit back and judge people for making poor decisions, but there's a reason con artists succeed.
I guess I'm a little confused because on one hand you're accusing HB of fraud and theft and then coming back and saying they're not a rip-off. Either they're bad guys or not. If you feel those allegations are true, I have no idea why you would ever give them your money on hbc. I understand they're different platforms, but it's the same ownership and basically same team who you said stole from you. This is a very serious allegation so you should provide some form of proof. I have no idea why they would steal when they're making millions, but again. If it's true show the proof. What are the name's of the companies that illegally withdrew from your account?
In regards to specific models. Again, Mike is right. Vote with your wallet. We have the power to literally punish bad offenders on our own without the assistance of HBC. If people are addicted to the rush of live chat... They can still get that from many other models and not the bad ones.
Again, hope you understand where I'm coming from.
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I'm not accusing HB of fraud or theft, I'm accusing them of knowingly using an insecure payment system (unlike CCBill), where diana***** or someone associated records credit card information and steals money. There have been other threads here documenting this. I'm not going to post my bank statements here for all to see, but they were fake companies claiming to be selling weight loss products. When my bank tried to get in contact with them, they were unsuccessful. These "companies" no longer have active websites (I haven't subscribed to hb for years because of this), but did at the time of theft. When I tried to use a prepaid visa once, diana declined the purchase (it was fine on other porn websites like clips4sale). There's no reason not to switch to a secure payment processor.
Nevertheless, this is completely disjoint from the HBC billing system. I'm not claiming any fraudulent behavior other than a few models lying, refusing to flex, etc. My only claim is that the owners are essentially defending the few fraudulent models by being dismissive and not saying "please email us with specific details." I think you and I are making the same points really. That voting with your wallet is of course the ideal situation, but many people don't, and that they should maintain high standards for their models, but sadly don't care as long as they're making money.
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I'm not accusing HB of fraud or theft, I'm accusing them of knowingly using an insecure payment system (unlike CCBill), where diana***** or someone associated records credit card information and steals money. There have been other threads here documenting this. I'm not going to post my bank statements here for all to see, but they were fake companies claiming to be selling weight loss products. When my bank tried to get in contact with them, they were unsuccessful. These "companies" no longer have active websites (I haven't subscribed to hb for years because of this), but did at the time of theft. When I tried to use a prepaid visa once, diana declined the purchase (it was fine on other porn websites like clips4sale). There's no reason not to switch to a secure payment processor.
Nevertheless, this is completely disjoint from the HBC billing system. I'm not claiming any fraudulent behavior other than a few models lying, refusing to flex, etc. My only claim is that the owners are essentially defending the few fraudulent models by being dismissive and not saying "please email us with specific details."
This is honestly the first I've ever heard of this. I searched "herbiceps.com fraud", "herbiceps.com stolen credit card", "*****.com fraud" and "Diana the Valkyrie fraud" nothing comes up for any of those searches. Not asking you to share your bank statements just the names of the companies in question. If it matches those that I've had steal money from me, then there's something here.
I think you and I are making the same points really. That voting with your wallet is of course the ideal situation, but many people don't, and that they should maintain high standards for their models, but sadly don't care as long as they're making money.
The community needs to stop being submissive pussies. This goes beyond hbc.
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so you are not talking about herbicepscam.com site. Ok. I dont have any experience on herbiceps site , i only use herbicepscam'S site . By the way does anyone know if i can buy as many credits as i want, for example 10 instead 0f 25 as it is on the category ''buy credits''. I havent undertand why i must only buy credits for 25 dollars, or for 50 dollars, and not as many or less than that i want.
Email us at help@herbicepscam.com. We'd be happy to help you with this.
Not fake news. I have the credit card statements to prove it. I have had to cancel my credit card multiple times in the past, only because of herbiceps signups. I have had real money stolen from me. There's no reason not to use CCBill. I'm not the only one this has happened to.
HerBiceps has been using DtV billing - dba Internet Privacy - since 2002. In that time, no one has emailed to outline the complaint you're alleging. When you consider the entire universe of sites - DtV, FemFlex, Collegeflex, AthleticWomenMagazine, Muscletease, SheWrestles, Buffyflex (I think it is), Bicepworld, etc - you're talking about a substantial number of transactions.
Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that there's a 0% chance you're telling the truth, nor am I suggesting that a database can be 100% secure (unless it is hidden, blank, and connected to nothing!), but I am saying that - in 15 years' time - no one has contacted us with this complaint. If - as you allege - there are others, one might wonder why no one has brought the matter to our direct attention in a way that can be investigated.
Typical response. Of course you should want very specific details, but to be dismissive with your customers is bad business. It's clear you just care about money, which is why Michelle is allowed to do what she does. The correct response is "please email us with details," not "vote with your wallet."
On this board multiple times, I've said that we cannot investigate what we don't know about and asked people to contact us with information if they feel they've been defrauded by a model logged into our system. It has yet to happen. The only poster who has posted even a skeleton outline of what went on with him began by stating that they had been in touch with one another OFF THE SITE. How on earth could you possibly expect us to bear any responsibility whatsoever in a transaction between 2 consenting adults that had nothing to do with us?
If someone wishes not to let us know if they've had this experience with her, that's their prerogative. If you don't like a model's attitude toward you in Free chat, give another model the chance to earn your business.
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to be clear, I'm not saying that there's a 0% chance you're telling the truth
No, you're just screaming fake news like you're Donald Trump. I guess you expect me to believe that it's just a coincidence when I've never had a single fraudulent charge on my card when I haven't signed up for herbiceps, but get one every single time within a week of signing up for HB. Or that I should believe it's a coincidence that every single charge was fitness/health-related.
but I am saying that - in 15 years' time - no one has contacted us with this complaint
That's not true. I (and likely others) was told to vote with my wallet, or to use paypal instead of "we're going to use something with real security." Every respectable website in the industry uses CCBill. You don't. Why investigate anything when you can just deny facts? You know what's happened on the rare occasions when I paid for a subscription at utopia or hdphysiques but there was a delay in getting my login information set up? The owner dealt with it within hours, and even sent me a link to a free video download for the inconvenience. This is good business. You know what happens when I tell you guys that I've been stolen from and that you don't use secure billing practices? I get told fake news, get told to vote with my wallet, or get told to pay over paypal. At every opportunity, you send the message that you don't care about your customers.
On this board multiple times, I've said that we cannot investigate what we don't know about and asked people to contact us with information if they feel they've been defrauded by a model logged into our system. It has yet to happen. The only poster who has posted even a skeleton outline of what went on with him began by stating that they had been in touch with one another OFF THE SITE. How on earth could you possibly expect us to bear any responsibility whatsoever in a transaction between 2 consenting adults that had nothing to do with us?
You know perfectly well it was brought to your attention on your forums that Michelle was being taken private, lying about "yeah I do topless, just take me 1on1," almost refusing to flex in private (every time you'd ask her to flex she'd spend at least 3-5 minutes typing "oh yeah look at my supreme muscles"), and all that typical eastern european stuff. Or she'd tell you she had someone to armwrestle, you go in private, and she keeps on dragging it out "he's coming, he's coming," and he's still not in the room 10 minutes later. You told people to vote with their wallet and didn't care because she was bringing in money. I have no idea what she did off hbc (though if she did get in touch with people off hbc, she was probably breaking the rules). You know pretty much the same thing happened with muscular desire, and you actually kicked her off the site. Then you let her back on almost immediately. It's pretty clear whose interests you have at heart.
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One thing we can say for a fact is that the system is definitely not secure and more invasive than the popular payment processors used by their competitors. So the question is, why is HB not upgrading? Why is the most popular site still using out-dated technology and putting their customers information at greater risk? What's the reason for neither HB or DtV upgrading? It's a legitimate concern regardless of the allegations.
In regards to Michelle, what really stands out to me is their treatment of model issues vs customer issues. Despite all of the complaints she was actually rewarded. If you post anything negative about her on the HBC forums they will pass your IP along to her so she knows who you are on HBC. Ironically, again showing how much they care about backing their customers or maintaining their privacy.
I stand by Mike's statement. Vote with your wallet, don't give hbc your money if there's that significant of an issue at hb.
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One thing we can say for a fact is that the system is definitely not secure and more invasive than the popular payment processors used by their competitors. So the question is, why is HB not upgrading? Why is the most popular site still using out-dated technology and putting their customers information at greater risk?
One person (out of thousands) states that his card information was used fraudulently and, because the unauthorized charges were for health/fitness-related products, the user concluded that there was ONE AND ONLY ONE possible source for the illegal transfer of his card information.
The likelihood that there's only one possible source is less than the likelihood that there's more than one possible source. And despite being asked multiple times, he has elected not to present his case directly to us.
If this were an actual problem, we would know about and we would address it. The fact that there has been no NEED to change systems in 15 years should be at least a tiny indication that the system is secure. I don't know how an unsecured system could last so long in a digital (and competitive) marketplace.
And for the record, we do use ccBill for some of our other properties. And we use Rocketgate at HBC.
In regards to Michelle, what really stands out to me is their treatment of model issues vs customer issues. Despite all of the complaints she was actually rewarded. If you post anything negative about her on the HBC forums they will pass your IP along to her so she knows who you are on HBC. Ironically, again showing how much they care about backing their customers or maintaining their privacy.
We are the ones who have always told performers and visitors not to exchange personal information. When those exchanges have happened, that's not on us.
We won't comment publicly on any specific contractor concerns, but as a matter of policy we do not pass your IPs along to anyone. I know it's late, but this idea what we're somehow colluding with performers to defraud or to stalk or to blackmail or to whatever it is you're thinking is unconscionable. Even if we were willing to give up our personal time to invest in such nefarious activities, what could we possibly have to gain from that? Think about it: on the one hand, it's being said that we're greedy and only care about money. But on the other hand, it's being said that we're engaging in actions that would potentially harm our customers and us and that we're doing it ....for free, with no chance of making any profit from it.
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I did come forward. I was told to pay via paypal. Your team made no effort to fix the problem. I'm not the only one. There have been multiple people on both Saradas and herbiceps forums to report these issues. You can keep denying it all you like. Here are the facts: my card was never fraudulently used outside of signing up for HB. When I signed up, I had fraudulent charges within a week. Every single time. This is not a coincidence. There's obviously a reason you continue to work with dtv's insecure billing system. The one time I tried to secure my information by using a prepaid card, dtv denied my signup. I wonder why.
If this sort of thing had happened at a respectable business like utopia or scissorfoxes or hdphysiques, they would have made it right. You guys just don't care. Every time someone makes legitimate complaints about hb or hbc, you go into denial mode and blame someone else.
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One thing we can say for a fact is that the system is definitely not secure and more invasive than the popular payment processors used by their competitors. So the question is, why is HB not upgrading? Why is the most popular site still using out-dated technology and putting their customers information at greater risk?
One person (out of thousands) states that his card information was used fraudulently and, because the unauthorized charges were for health/fitness-related products, the user concluded that there was ONE AND ONLY ONE possible source for the illegal transfer of his card information.
The likelihood that there's only one possible source is less than the likelihood that there's more than one possible source. And despite being asked multiple times, he has elected not to present his case directly to us.
If this were an actual problem, we would know about and we would address it. The fact that there has been no NEED to change systems in 15 years should be at least a tiny indication that the system is secure. I don't know how an unsecured system could last so long in a digital (and competitive) marketplace.
And for the record, we do use ccBill for some of our other properties. And we use Rocketgate at HBC.
In regards to Michelle, what really stands out to me is their treatment of model issues vs customer issues. Despite all of the complaints she was actually rewarded. If you post anything negative about her on the HBC forums they will pass your IP along to her so she knows who you are on HBC. Ironically, again showing how much they care about backing their customers or maintaining their privacy.
We are the ones who have always told performers and visitors not to exchange personal information. When those exchanges have happened, that's not on us.
We won't comment publicly on any specific contractor concerns, but as a matter of policy we do not pass your IPs along to anyone. I know it's late, but this idea what we're somehow colluding with performers to defraud or to stalk or to blackmail or to whatever it is you're thinking is unconscionable. Even if we were willing to give up our personal time to invest in such nefarious activities, what could we possibly have to gain from that? Think about it: on the one hand, it's being said that we're greedy and only care about money. But on the other hand, it's being said that we're engaging in actions that would potentially harm our customers and us and that we're doing it ....for free, with no chance of making any profit from it.
With DtV all of your information is visible to the person processing the charges, so you do have to rely on them being trustworthy. Unlike an automated system where the only risk is it being hacked. DtV has the risk of being hacked in addition to your information being seen and accessible to the owner. It is thus inherently less secure by it's very nature.
I know for a fact that my information was passed to Michelle. I posted a complaint on the HB forums under a name and IP that I do not use on HBC. Not long after posting that negative review that same IP was banned by her. It of course was previously accessible and not from a blocked country. How else would she have known? We know from the waiting in private issue, that the girls who bring in big money get what they want.
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With DtV all of your information is visible to the person processing the charges, so you do have to rely on them being trustworthy. Unlike an automated system where the only risk is it being hacked. DtV has the risk of being hacked in addition to your information being seen and accessible to the owner. It is thus inherently less secure by it's very nature.
Yes, anything with a wired connection has the potential to be hacked, from the Kremlin to Davemeister.com. What you are describing could happen, but the main DtV site is 20 years old. If DtV were swiping and reselling cc info, none of the related sites could have lasted so long.
I know for a fact that my information was passed to Michelle. I posted a complaint on the HB forums under a name and IP that I do not use on HBC. Not long after posting that negative review that same IP was banned by her. It of course was previously accessible and not from a blocked country. How else would she have known? We know from the waiting in private issue, that the girls who bring in big money get what they want.
How can you be 100% certain that the block was not put in place by our team? How can you be 100% certain that the performer in question did not block your other username?
What you (along with everyone reading!) know for a fact is that there are multiple possibilities and that you did not witness the transaction. That is, you did not see when or how the block was implemented. You saw the result, that's all.
That being said, if you believe a given performer is a con artist, wouldn't you prefer NOT to see her when you log on? A lot of members have requested this and we're always happy to oblige.
We really want everyone to enjoy their experience on HBC, so please email us if you have real concerns about security or fraud or anything else. help@herbicepscam.com
Thanks in advance.
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With DtV all of your information is visible to the person processing the charges, so you do have to rely on them being trustworthy. Unlike an automated system where the only risk is it being hacked. DtV has the risk of being hacked in addition to your information being seen and accessible to the owner. It is thus inherently less secure by it's very nature.
Yes, anything with a wired connection has the potential to be hacked, from the Kremlin to Davemeister.com. What you are describing could happen, but the main DtV site is 20 years old. If DtV were swiping and reselling cc info, none of the related sites could have lasted so long.
I know for a fact that my information was passed to Michelle. I posted a complaint on the HB forums under a name and IP that I do not use on HBC. Not long after posting that negative review that same IP was banned by her. It of course was previously accessible and not from a blocked country. How else would she have known? We know from the waiting in private issue, that the girls who bring in big money get what they want.
How can you be 100% certain that the block was not put in place by our team? How can you be 100% certain that the performer in question did not block your other username?
What you (along with everyone reading!) know for a fact is that there are multiple possibilities and that you did not witness the transaction. That is, you did not see when or how the block was implemented. You saw the result, that's all.
That being said, if you believe a given performer is a con artist, wouldn't you prefer NOT to see her when you log on? A lot of members have requested this and we're always happy to oblige.
We really want everyone to enjoy their experience on HBC, so please email us if you have real concerns about security or fraud or anything else. help@herbicepscam.com
Thanks in advance.
If two different HB.com members have the same fraudulent charge on their account, wouldn't that be a tad suspicious? What are the chances that two complete strangers would fall victim to theft from the same company and it not be related to the platform they know they have in common?
And what business do you have blocking me for posting a complaint? One of the two has to hold true, and neither of which is appropriate. For the sake of argument we can say your team did it, but I still know for a fact that it was her. I will not say how, but you know the truth and that's all that matters.
Let me ask this. Has Michelle never received a bonus? However you wish to spin it, this woman conned her way to the top and received support and rewards along the way.
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Most webcam sites will kick girls off if they cut out the middleman. Same goes for other "similar" businesses, like airbnb or wyzant. According to a number of hbc models, the same is true here. But when this happens, the models are defended and the business owners here just blame others instead of enforcing their own rules or caring for their customers (presumably because they gain more money by doing nothing).
Please email us if you have "real" concerns. Lol. When you dismiss every real concern, there are no real concerns.
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Queen muscle uploaded a video of 4 minutes lengh, for how many credits do you think; Can you guess; No you cant imagine that . 1000 credits[100s]. I think something is going wrong here...
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If two different HB.com members have the same fraudulent charge on their account, wouldn't that be a tad suspicious? What are the chances that two complete strangers would fall victim to theft from the same company and it not be related to the platform they know they have in common?
Yes, that would be a tad suspicious...and some might even suspect a bit convenient that the 2 people it happened to would know one another. *wink*
I hope that your bank protected you by not honoring those fraudulent charges so that you were not on the hook for any amount. Credit card theft is no joke at all and even if your bank acts in your interests, I know firsthand that's a real hassle to get your own money/credit back and do not envy you that experience at all. It's a bitch, no question, and I'm genuinely sorry that you had that experience.
And what business do you have blocking me for posting a complaint? One of the two has to hold true, and neither of which is appropriate. For the sake of argument we can say your team did it, but I still
know for a fact that it was her. I will not say how, but you know the truth and that's all that matters.
I'm not saying that's what happened, but I am offering it as a possibility...just as it's possible that you were blocked by complete accident, a THIRD possible option which might also be true. This has happened before.
As for what business we have, well, respectfully, it is our business to manage and we have to operate in the manner we think is best, even if it means losing a few dollars here and there along the way. We do appreciate your support of the site - I'm not saying otherwise, so please don't take it that way - but we cannot mold the entire operation to the wishes of any single individual customer.
I would, however, be interested in hearing your conclusive evidence about how the block came to be. Email me privately - help@herbicepscam.com - and I promise to keep that information confidential.
Let me ask this. Has Michelle never received a bonus? However you wish to spin it, this woman conned her way to the top and received support and rewards along the way.
C'mon, now, you know I can't answer that. If she or any other performer has ever received a site bonus, then that matter is completely between the model and the company. We don't discuss customer accounts with models and we don't discuss model accounts with customers. Your privacy means a lot to you and accordingly, it means a lot to us.
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If two different HB.com members have the same fraudulent charge on their account, wouldn't that be a tad suspicious? What are the chances that two complete strangers would fall victim to theft from the same company and it not be related to the platform they know they have in common?
Yes, that would be a tad suspicious...and some might even suspect a bit convenient that the 2 people it happened to would know one another. *wink*
There's really no point in you posting here if you're just going to blame the victims and take no responsibility for anything. Pretty sure those 2 people don't know each other.
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This is why I no longer use HBC lol.
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One thing we can say for a fact is that the system is definitely not secure and more invasive than the popular payment processors used by their competitors. So the question is, why is HB not upgrading? Why is the most popular site still using out-dated technology and putting their customers information at greater risk? What's the reason for neither HB or DtV upgrading? It's a legitimate concern regardless of the allegations.
Maybe beacuse CCBill charges 9% or something on a transaction. And DtV probably does not?
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Evidently every other paysite (utopia, scissorfoxes, scissorvixens, crushwrestling, hdphysiques, tanyafitness, skylarrene, ...) is OK with whatever cut CCBill takes, and is priced comparably. From what I can tell, CCBill actually charges 5.9% + 0.55 per transaction at the highest (2% lower if they only allowed US/Canada/UK/EU). Regardless, I think this is an instance of penny-wise, pound-foolish if that is the reason. I think most people would rather pay, say, $15.95 per month than $13.95 plus the very high chance of their information and/or money being stolen.
However, this is all tangential to this thread, which is about hbc, not hb.
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CCBill actually charges 5.9% + 0.55 per transaction at the highest (2% lower if they only allowed US/Canada/UK/EU).
That's not true for businesses in this space. ccBill charges a LOT more than that, because photo/video subscription sites have a higher-than-normal rate of fraud and chargebacks. For this reason, even if your site has never had a single chargeback or fraud case, you are labeled as a high-risk account by VISA. ccBill then passes that expense on to the merchants and this is in addition to the annual VISA assessment that is not charged to standard product merchants. ccBill does a generally good job of password management and servicing accounts in that regard, but there is a high price for that and the more user accounts you have, the more you feel it, because the price breaks you get at certain volume thresholds do not offset the actual cost.
For that reason, most of the world's photo/video-based member sites are NOT using ccBill, but as I've previously noted, we do use them for a few of our sites and chances are, we will continue using them for the foreseeable future.
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Hard numbers?
Every other site in this industry does use CCBill. I can't think of any decent sites that don't. Either way, there's no excuse for using a payment processor that steals money.
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If two different HB.com members have the same fraudulent charge on their account, wouldn't that be a tad suspicious? What are the chances that two complete strangers would fall victim to theft from the same company and it not be related to the platform they know they have in common?
Yes, that would be a tad suspicious...and some might even suspect a bit convenient that the 2 people it happened to would know one another. *wink*
I hope that your bank protected you by not honoring those fraudulent charges so that you were not on the hook for any amount. Credit card theft is no joke at all and even if your bank acts in your interests, I know firsthand that's a real hassle to get your own money/credit back and do not envy you that experience at all. It's a bitch, no question, and I'm genuinely sorry that you had that experience.
And what business do you have blocking me for posting a complaint? One of the two has to hold true, and neither of which is appropriate. For the sake of argument we can say your team did it, but I still
know for a fact that it was her. I will not say how, but you know the truth and that's all that matters.
I'm not saying that's what happened, but I am offering it as a possibility...just as it's possible that you were blocked by complete accident, a THIRD possible option which might also be true. This has happened before.
As for what business we have, well, respectfully, it is our business to manage and we have to operate in the manner we think is best, even if it means losing a few dollars here and there along the way. We do appreciate your support of the site - I'm not saying otherwise, so please don't take it that way - but we cannot mold the entire operation to the wishes of any single individual customer.
I would, however, be interested in hearing your conclusive evidence about how the block came to be. Email me privately - help@herbicepscam.com - and I promise to keep that information confidential.
Let me ask this. Has Michelle never received a bonus? However you wish to spin it, this woman conned her way to the top and received support and rewards along the way.
C'mon, now, you know I can't answer that. If she or any other performer has ever received a site bonus, then that matter is completely between the model and the company. We don't discuss customer accounts with models and we don't discuss model accounts with customers. Your privacy means a lot to you and accordingly, it means a lot to us.
Who knows each other?
Also, Michelle was one of if not the highest earner on hbc until Amazonka came along. There's no way she didn't hit the required marks for some of the bonuses you guys give out. You don't have to admit it, but there's no denying that either.