Forum Saradas


Donate today to show love to your community!
gfxgfx
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
steroidify
 
gfx gfx
parapharma Advertising
gfxgfx
 
Welcome to Forum Saradas! Female Bodybuilding, Fitness, Figure & Bikini

Do you love female bodybuilding and events like the Olympia and the Arnold Classic? Are you interested in female bodybuilding, fitness, figure & bikini?
If so check out and join our female bodybuilding forum! Saradas is the oldest and most popular female bodybuilding, fitness forum.

🔥 At Saradas you will find the most amazing and rare pictures of probably every female professional bodybuilder who has ever competed.   
🔥 You can keep up with female bodybuilding news from all over the world and hear the latest on your favorite bodybuilder.
🔥 You will find the latest updates on bodybuilding events like the Olympia and the Arnold Classic.

Saradas is your one stop female bodybuilding resource. Come and join us!

Saradas - The Internet Female Bodybuilding Database
 
gfx gfx
gfx
575591 Posts in 73199 Topics by 28880 Members - Latest Member: Survivor2022 April 26, 2024, 03:03:49 am
*
gfx* Home | Help | Login | Register | gfx
gfx
Forum Saradas  |  Private Sessions  |  List of fantasies / Specialities discussion  |  Knockouts by chokes or scissors
gfx
gfxgfx
 

Author Topic: Knockouts by chokes or scissors  (Read 60705 times)

Offline crazycrazy

  • Gold Member VIP
  • Newbie
  • *******
  • Posts: 309
  • Activity:
    6.67%
  • KARMA: 151
  • Just plain crazy
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2014, 06:44:31 am »
If you are talking about releasing the hold after 15 seconds then we are talking about a different definition of "to go out deeply" and "into a deep sleep"... I was thinking the choke was held far longer than that.
You might know that brain damage does not occur until 5 minutes have passed, but you would be very reckless to allow yourself to be choked for long enough to prove that fact.
When you talk about a trained instructor choking people out, you know the hold is released at the moment the victim loses consciousnessness. The purpose of the demonstration is to allow the victim to experience how quickly they lose the ability to tap out, which would protect them from injury. A trained instructor is also trained in how to revive a victim in case of seizure or convulsions. I have seen how instructors react when a participant in a martial arts class has a seizure and their treatment is taken very seriously. A session wrestler is not trained in these techniques, but is self-taught. There is no one else present to ensure your safety during a choke out.
I am warning people not to take chances with their brains.

Forum Saradas

Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2014, 06:44:31 am »

j635746

  • Guest
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2014, 11:24:07 am »
I guess Crazycrazy is not crazy and makes a good point especially about seizures and convulsions.  Some seizures and convulsions are very violent.  Having experienced this first hand I can tell you this is true.  A seizure or convulsion in a cramped space like a hotel room can lead to injury.  What's more if the women panics and does not put you in the recovery position quickly and you end up on your back, there is always the possibility that you can swallow your tongue and choke to death.

I will often do sessions where scissors are part of it but I always make it clear that any knockout from a scissor or choke hold will be simulated so they know when to stop if I'm doing a role play for example.  If doing a competitive session, then I make it clear from the start no knockouts by chokes, scissors, sleepers etc, and the woman will say that it is down to me to tap in time and not fight it when clearly she has the upper hand.

Yahooserious

  • Guest
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2014, 04:21:29 pm »
http://www.nletc.com/files/GJPD--LVNR-Staff-Study.pdf

Just figured I'd keep throwing some actual facts into the conversation.

"Medical research on the use of neck restraints can be divided into two categories. An extensive amount
of research has been conducted regarding neck restraints in the sport of Judo. This res
earch consistently
shows that there are no deleterious effects of Judo “chokes.” "

"The carotid arteries supply approximately 70%
of the blood to the brain. The carotid arteries are very resilient and it is not possible to completely stop
the blood flow through these arteries with o
nly pressure applied with the arms."

"One of the first studies was
conducted by the United States Military in 1943. A
team of American military scientists examined the
effect of acute cerebral anoxia

a short and severe lack
of oxygen to the brain
. To do this, they
used an
inflatable cervical pressure cuff designed to induce temporary arrest of circulation without affecting the
respiratory tract; essentially, a mechanically created carotid pressure hold. The cuff was held down to
the lower third of the neck and press
ure increased to 600 mm of mercury within one
-
eighth second.
One hundred and twenty six prison volunteers and 11 diagnosed schizophrenic patients were fitted with
the cuff which was tightened until unconsciousness was induced. The average time from arrest
of
cerebral circulation to loss of consciousness was six to eight seconds. The study concluded that arrest of
cerebral circulation in normal
young
men results in fixation of the eyes, tingling, constriction of the
visual fields, loss of consciousness, and
brief, mild tonic and clonic seizure after restoration of the blood
flow. This study, though dated, is perhaps the largest study ever conducted in terms of the sheer
number of participants. No deleterious effects were observed from
repeated tests on these
subjects.
There were a number of studies conducted in Japan during the time frame of 1958
-
1963 that focused on
the physiological effects of choking in Judo. Judo authority Dr. E.K. Kiowai summarized the results of
these studies in an article entitled, “H
ow Safe is Choking in Judo” in which he stated that there were no
negative effects following application of a Judo choke hold. For the purposes of Judo both a respiratory
neck restraint and a vascular neck restraint are both deemed “chokes.” Dr Koiwai who
is an Associate
Professor of Pathology and Anatomy at the Hahnemann University School of Medicine summarizes that
carotid holds are safe for three reasons: there have been no fatalities since Judo was invented in 1892,
scientific studies have shown no del
eterious effects and precautionary rules and methods make the
technique safe.
In a 1963 report
entitled, “ Physiologica
l
Studie
s of C
hoking in Judo”
a
group of medical specialists and
ranking educators
representing
several of Japan's foremost medical sc
hools and universities as
well as
the Kodokan developed an experiment to determine the safety of chokes. They utilized
the
electroencephalograph to detect brain changes; the earoxymeter for blood oxygen saturation, the
sphygmomanometer for arterial blood p
ressure; the plethysmograph peripheral blood vessel reaction
and the micropipometer for skin temperature changes. Other studies probed the plasma protein
concentration, blood water volume, hematrocrit complete blood count, eosinophil count and urine 17
ket
o
-
steroid content
to determine the risk associated with a Judo neck restraint. The test group
consisted of 6 Judo experts. Chokes were administered using the three methods common in Judo. These
included vascular and respiratory holds. This research experim
ent showed that there were no negative
effects related to the holds. However, the researchers did recommend that a choke hold not be used
against anyone with a cardiac disorder or hypertension. This was based on the increased blood pressure
associated with
the hold."

So you guys can go by anecdotes or by actual extensive medical research. I'll take the actual extensive medical research.

Offline crazycrazy

  • Gold Member VIP
  • Newbie
  • *******
  • Posts: 309
  • Activity:
    6.67%
  • KARMA: 151
  • Just plain crazy
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2014, 05:34:20 pm »
Your "actual extensive medical research" does not apply to a session provider alone with you in a hotel room.  Her experience will vary, but it is likely the type of "anectdotal" experience that you consider to be unreliable.

The US government experiment in 1943 conducted on prisoners and schizophrenics released the neck pressure in six to eight seconds. The Japanese examples conclude that "carotid holds are safe for three reasons: there have been no fatalities since Judo was invented... scientific studies show no deleterious effects and precautionary rules make the technique safe..." Reason #1 refers only to fatalities within supervised Judo contests and cannot possibly apply to the unsupervised use of carotid holds outside of supervised contests. Reason #2 refers to scientific studies such as the US Military study, where pressure was released in six to eight seconds. And reason #3 refers to the exact same caution I am warning you with: It is the precautionary rules that make the brief application of this hold safer-- the hold is applied by trained Judo practitioners who are able to initiate recovery treatment, or in the presence of trained supervisors. These demonstrations are performed to show dangerous the hold can be, as you lose the ability to tap out quite quickly. The examples you quote do not apply when the hold is clamped on and held after unconsciousness in a hotel room by an untrained person who has a monetary interest in providing the service. Go to a martial arts class and ask the instructor if the white belts can safely choke each other out.

You should experience the rush for your own enjoyment, but should not advise other people that it's safe.

Yahooserious

  • Guest
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2014, 06:19:59 pm »
It absolutely does apply. We are talking about blood chokes. You are asserting that blood chokes are dangerous. We have two extensive studies that drew exactly the opposite conclusion. We also know for a fact that there are thousands and thousands of Jui Jitsu and Judo dojos across the planet and thousands of competitive tournaments held each year. In these dojos and tournaments we have literally thousands of incidents of people being choked out. In many cases the chokes were held well past the moment of unconsciousness because no one recognized what had happened. And yet we have ZERO reported incidents of brain damage or fatalities from any of those thousands and thousands of actual choke outs. Each year we have thousands of deaths due to food poisoning, pedestrians being struck by vehicles while crossing at cross walks, accidental deaths in swimming pools, people drowning in their bathtubs. We even have many recorded incidents of people choking to death on gum. There does come a point where there actually needs to be a substantial incidence of injury and fatality for us to meaningfully call something dangerous. The insistence that being choked out is dangerous doesn't even rise to the level of anecdotal. Where are the anecdotes? Where are the examples of brain damage and/or death due to blood chokes? I can cite multiple incidents of severe injury and death from doing the most mundane things that we commonly do without any thought of the act being particularly dangerous. If the word dangerous is going to have any real and useful meaning I would think it would be applied to things that have a well documented track record of causing severe injury and death. Clearly that is not the case here. Something I find a bit ironic given the other real dangers of grappling.

Offline crazycrazy

  • Gold Member VIP
  • Newbie
  • *******
  • Posts: 309
  • Activity:
    6.67%
  • KARMA: 151
  • Just plain crazy
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2014, 10:19:26 pm »
No, it doesn't apply.  We are talking about professionals and non professionals. You can't compare the safety of a session provider choking you in a hotel with no witnesses to a professionally supervised competition in a dojo. You wouldn't let a carpenter drill your tooth on an empty bus, or a butcher remove your appendix in a closet.

You are suggesting that holding the choke until well after unconsciousness is safe. Regarding Kordelia Devonshire, you said: "she holds them longer. It puts you out deeper. Most girls let go at the first sign of unconsciousness and that is usually just before you are completely out. With Kordelia you go all the way out. And yes, it is safe."  JuiJitsu competitions are supervised so that chokes are released immediately on unconsciousness, Judo demonstrations are done by professionals, Kordelia Devonshire is relatively inexperienced, and hotel rooms are not dojos.

That's why those studies don't apply.  Chokes that are held longer than necessary to effect unconsciousness, by amateurs, without supervision are not safe.

Offline crazycrazy

  • Gold Member VIP
  • Newbie
  • *******
  • Posts: 309
  • Activity:
    6.67%
  • KARMA: 151
  • Just plain crazy
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2014, 10:54:43 pm »
I had some time to waste so I searched out the expert you named in your defence of choke safety above, E. Karl Koiwai, M.D.  Writing in 1995 about the difference between chokeholds causing death, and Judo chokeholds, Dr. Koiwai states:

"In judo, the participants are taught to "choke" properly and in turn have been "choked" and have the ability to realize its effects before unconsciousness ensues. The officials, referee, judges, and coaches can recognize the player when he is "choked out" (becomes unconscious). If enforcement officers are to use the choke holds to subdue violent suspects as a last resort, they should be properly trained and supervised by trained certified judo instructors. Then possibly there will be less misuse or abuse of the techniques of choking which, when used improperly, result in fatalities."

The study lists 14 victims choked to death by police officers who were attempting the carotid artery choke.  The reference is found in http://judoinfo.com/chokes6.htm

Yahooserious

  • Guest
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2014, 03:34:33 am »
OK well I think we obviously have very different opinions on the subject and have both made our cases.

One thing though. 14 deaths from police choke holds? Ya gotta consider a couple things there. 1. tens of thousands of police choke holds with no fatalities. 2. Police deal with people in all states of physical and mental well being. 3. there is a significant subset of police that enjoy hurting people under the cover of authority. 4 in none of the cases was it determined that the actual blood choke was the cause of death. It's easy to kill someone by crushing their windpipe and it's no surprise that there would be fatalities in the field given the vast array of physically and mentally unstable people police deal with. The article also points out that there have been many fatalities with restrains in hospitals that don't involve any sort of restriction of the carotid artery. None of the studies of use of choke holds by police ever drew any conclusion that a blood choke per se was in any way dangerous.

But anyway. You have made your arguments and I have made mine. Folks reading this can read the studies and decide for themselves.

Cheers

Offline kicked in the face by a lady bodybuilder

  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Activity:
    0%
  • KARMA: 16
  • Female Bodybuilding, Physique, Fitness, Figure & Bikini
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2014, 06:05:46 am »
a very attractive national level bodybuilder knocked me out with headscissors a number of years ago, I don't think I was out that long, but she had time to adjust her position so that the first thing I saw as I awoke was the sole of her bare foot perhaps an inch or two from my face...really highlighted what she had just done to me...

DeVore

  • Guest
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2014, 08:18:18 pm »
Has anyone tried inhaling a popper before being knocked out?  I wonder if it would intensify the effect.

Offline Siva

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Activity:
    0%
  • KARMA: 4
  • Female Bodybuilding, Physique, Fitness, Figure & Bikini
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2019, 05:25:20 am »
 :wow:

Offline stereokillah

  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Activity:
    0%
  • KARMA: 9
  • Female Bodybuilding, Physique, Fitness, Figure & Bikini
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2019, 05:45:04 pm »
yesterday i experienced something where i really panicked. I had multiple session in my life and also been knocked out a couple of times and i love it, but i never experienced something like this.  yesterday i had a session where i was knocked out in a headscissor for like 10 seconds, since then the cheek on the left side on my face feels numb, it is not hanging or anYthing and i can still move it. Has anyone ever been experienced something like this? This happened like 24 hours ago and it is still numb. I am starting to worry a bit, since i read about strokes caused by strangulation and so on

Offline ScissorFan84D

  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Activity:
    0%
  • KARMA: 2
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2019, 06:55:36 pm »
Who did the scissor ko?  How is it now?  Was the session girl super big?
User is currently banned [View]

Offline smekhkara

  • New
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Activity:
    0%
  • KARMA: 13
  • Female Bodybuilding, Physique, Fitness, Figure & Bikini
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2019, 11:56:24 pm »
I had a session with Fabi some years ago and was knocked out by her legs when I came around I was totally disoriented for a few seconds but I considered it part of the session something I had never experienced before! 
User is currently banned [View]

Offline marvin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 263
  • Activity:
    0%
  • KARMA: 172
Re: Knockouts by chokes or scissors
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2019, 12:42:33 am »
Has your cheek returned to normal? Any other side effects?

yesterday i experienced something where i really panicked. I had multiple session in my life and also been knocked out a couple of times and i love it, but i never experienced something like this.  yesterday i had a session where i was knocked out in a headscissor for like 10 seconds, since then the cheek on the left side on my face feels numb, it is not hanging or anYthing and i can still move it. Has anyone ever been experienced something like this? This happened like 24 hours ago and it is still numb. I am starting to worry a bit, since i read about strokes caused by strangulation and so on
User is currently banned [View]

Forum Saradas  |  Private Sessions  |  List of fantasies / Specialities discussion  |  Knockouts by chokes or scissors
 

gfxgfx
Forum Saradas does not host any files on its own servers.
gfx
It only points to various links on the Internet that already exist.
It is recommended to buy Original Video, CD, DVD's and pictures only.
gfx
Mobile View