#DISCUSSION: What's the appeal of female muscle domination fiction?

[crimson_E_86]

It doesn't have to be deep or complex, yes. But it has to be a COMPLETE story. That's always been one of the biggest issues with this subgenre of a subgenre: the impetus of telling an outcome rather than the implications and dealings of that situation. It's understandable that pain and violence are one of the most fetishized aspects, but the entire focus being on only that robs any potential staying power or connection for the story. It's like the phrase "A hole's a hole. Long as you're getting laid, doesn't matter." And sadly, that's not how storytelling works. "Rushing to the good bits" almost always lets the story down.

It doesn't have to be a complete story. What if readers enjoyed reading only one aspect? "Rushing to good bits" may appeal to some readers because that's what they enjoy about reading.

YES! Another way to put it is; If you can't make me care about what you've written, why should I read it? A story is a sandwich, it needs to be comprised of layers to exist, how many layers is debatable, but a Dagwood is always more filling than a simple PBJ. If you just want the meat, it's not a sandwich.

A story can be anything the author wants it to be. Some readers can read these stories. If the fetish story can get the reader off, should it matter or not if the stories have layers?

[NinjaStar]

Are you just arguing for the sake of it or something? If someone is going to get off reading a few sentence fragments of a narrative that doesn't go anywhere, then they're going to get off on it and there is simply no helping these people appreciate the work you've painstakingly crafted as a whole, complete story. Frankly, as an author myself, I enjoy literature as an art form. As I said, there are very few stories in this genre than really engage me. If most people who read these stories are the types that skip plot, framing and context just to get to the good parts, it would make me never want to write again knowing that there are readers out there that are such imbecilic, simple-minded philistines that all the effort I would put into crafting a complete story would just go to waste. That is so fucking enraging and depressing at the same time, you really have no idea.

If would-be authors want to put forth no effort in their stories, that's their business. And believe me, when that happens, it shows. There's a glut of identical, lousy, go-nowhere stories out there. We don't need more.

[Elmanouche]

@ NinjaStar : As much as I do agree with you on that subject, you are going a bit off topic. Question was "What is the appeal of female muscle domination fiction?"

But to keep on your little off side rant.
I do prefer well written stories, with interesting plot and or well written characters. But at times, maybe because of my own libido, I do enjoy small stories which just go straight to the point : Muscles.

"imbecilic, simple-minded philistines" & "We don't need more" : that's a bit playing elitism, looking down from above. And I can't agree with that way of thinking.
crimson_E_86 just stated a simple fact about stories and anything in general : to each their own. And to each stories its audience.

Moreover, I think it also depends on the mood you are on when reading and/or writing a story.
I've recently been immersed into SF, hence why I started a Sci-Fi story, in which muscles will be a tool not the purpose. While for my previous story I had an urge to depict a massive growth.

So I understand you are sick to see such "go-nowhere" stories, but not much you can do about it. As some only seek that and need that. Those wanting a good written story will look for yours, or el_roy's or anyone complying with your "good writing" pattern.


And to get back on the subject, I'm not much into mean domination. But I do like it, if well depicted and adds to the scenery. Gratuitous off topic punishments tend to be a turn off though.

[hero141]

I agree, guys. Well-written and to each his own.

For me, the appeal is all about the ways power can be deployed to serve the narcissistic whims of an utterly evil mind. I love the paradox of (extreme) beauty and sadistic evil, of femininity and muscularity in female characters and of a total loss of control and inferiority in male characters. I also like the opposition between sexual attraction and danger, love and death in stories. Addicted to the Romantic agony perhaps...

[crimson_E_86]

I didn't mean to argue and sorry to anyone that saw my comment in that way.  I was trying to answer the topic' s question. What some people hated, disliked, or viewed as a negative aspect were probably what appeals to other people.

[totocom]

Everybody around here is trying to fulfill a fantasy or to escape from the stress of life. Who cares why? Who cares how you write, how you read?
The panel of stories is big enough to find something which matches with your tastes. Isn't it the more important point?

i prefer gentle amazons, i enjoy light domination, i prefer suggesting what could happen instead of making it to happen, but who cares? my stories are all different, i write when i feel the need, i draw when i enjoy it, i create 3D scenes when i want to play with my fantasies, i read stories when i feel the urge. However, i never wonder why some guys like the stories, the drawings i hate. Not only i don't care but i have no right to judge them for that. That's not real life! Boundaries aren't the same. Each one is free to put them where he wants since they respect the law.

Sometimes i read a story and find it disgusting -too gory or to violent-, but if i read it two months later perhaps i find it funny. Why that? I don't care. I don't try to enjoy my fantasy like i try to enjoy my life. i suppose that guys who like hard domination have their own reasons, and i know that they certainly aren't the same for each one.

About the writing styles and the ways characters are depicted, remember than almost members don't speak english fluently -like me-, so you can't reasonably expect the same work than someone who speak english perfectly.
Moreover, i'm sure that a lot of members write short stories because they want to contribute. not only i thanks them for that, but i'm perfectly aware that they help better authors to imagine, depict, some scenes, so they are very important to the community.
 

[GAP]

I am the same way but also I do some light femdom stories too, I do not like gore myself but I do acknowledge that other people do.

[demented20]

I agree, guys. Well-written and to each his own.

For me, the appeal is all about the ways power can be deployed to serve the narcissistic whims of an utterly evil mind. I love the paradox of (extreme) beauty and sadistic evil, of femininity and muscularity in female characters and of a total loss of control and inferiority in male characters. I also like the opposition between sexual attraction and danger, love and death in stories. Addicted to the Romantic agony perhaps...

I like reading threads like this when they pop up to sort of get the mood of people, their likes and dislikes and in NinjaStar's case, what he hates

I was wondering though when the first champion of the harder edged muscle domination stories would post. There seem to be quite a few people who like the brutal gory and sometimes plotless stories. I used to hate them with a passion. I used to think that they gave people who enjoyed a good female muscle story an even worse name. I've softened my stance a little over the years though. I like what I like and I probably couldn't give any answers as to why. I think I fall somewhere in the 'normal' range for a guy who likes female muscle. I do know that there are people who like things within the female muscle realm that I don't and that I probably never will like, and that's okay.

As far as writing stories goes, longer more structured stories with character development aren't some people's cup of tea. I tend to write stories like that, but everybody doesn't like what I write and I never expected everybody to. There is a niche for the types of stories that I like to read and that I like to write and I think that there will continue to be a niche for the types of stories we're talking about in this thread.  It's like some people love slasher films and some people think that those people are crazy.

As for

[mondo]

I don't get it either. I really hate it too. It's one thing to have somebody get their comeuppance or for the dominance to be justified in some way, but when victimization of innocent people is portrayed as acceptable or even sexy makes me ill. Why is it that any time a woman becomes strong in stories, she immediately becomes a bloodthirsty psychopath at worst or a bullying asshole at best? The men in these stories made the egregious mistake of being attracted to these women and are tortured, enslaved, raped and sometimes killed. It's really maddening.

It's almost like the authors of these kinds of stories feel guilty about being attracted to muscular women and want to be punished for it.

That's not the case, at least not for me.  I like genuine love, gentle amazons.  But there is also something delicious about the darker side of someone taking  control.  Its obviously an acquired taste, but sometimes you just wanna go the other way with it.  (I'm sure that for someone it is a case of self-loathing) but me and most of the people I know into this go for it in addition to.  Sort of a different flavor to shake things up. 

[dominantanddeadlyfemales]

For me it's all about power and  for reasons i don't understand the abuse of that power in any way is more appealing to me sexually.  I guess the power of life and death is the ultimate power which is why i enjoy the snuff type stories.  I also prefer stories where the main character is unstoppable, invulnerable and can do whatever she wants to whomever she wants, whenever she wants.  So that's the type of stories i write.  I am well aware that such a character limits any potential for the character to grow or the story to progress in any meaningful way, but that's okay, because i just write them to satisfy a sexual urge.  If i want a culture fix then i'll read books by better writers than me.  I think i should also mention that i think the majority of the guys who like the darker, more violent fantasies enjoy it purely as a fantasy.  I for one love the thought of a cruel, sadistic, powerful woman.  I would never want to date one though.

[fbbsmmh]

I think some people are looking for creativity in writing here rather than subject matter. But no one here will be looking for pullitzers. Stories here are about fantasy, not good writing necessarily, so that is a bonus. I've often started to write stories for here but don't finish them because I'm terrified that someone will find out that it's me. I like the gruesome stuff myself and what I write is quite gruesome. Why does everything have to be so psycho analysed though? Are Scorcese and Tarantino necessarily sadists or cruel because their films are often unnecessarily violent? No, of course not. For me, such stories are about the domination and the fact there are no limits, that these women can basically force the entire world to submit to their will and worship their might and power. It is not an endorsement of extreme violence per se. I don't see the need for judgement really. Is someone who watches films like predator a sadist? I'm not into violence for the sake of violence films, but I wouldn't assume those that are want to live in a world where people are constantly killing. The same way as the fact I like to read and visualise stories where women have impossible musculature, unlimited strength and assert their physical superiority quite viciously, doesn't mean I want to see such stuff in real life. It's an imagine if thing. If it were actually possible and you could see the human consequences then I doubt I'd want to read about it, but the fantasy is the pull for me.

[JerusalemTulip]

There is some appeal to domination.  Experiencing imaginary female muscle through good written description is enough to get me hard, but then again just seeing an attractive woman does the same lol.  I normally wouldn't want to wade through 20 pages of a story, if there wasn't something in it that I wasn't experiencing in life, something that needed to be fantasized about. 

Domination might mean different things to different people.  In the context of female muscle fiction, to me, it means a strong woman demonstrating that she is in control of her man.  There is obviously the physical and sexual aspect, but I've also enjoyed stories where the man was/became emotionally dependent, financially dependent etc. on his woman also, emphasizing that she was truly the better half.

I also understand why some domination stories are getting disparaged.  If a story reaches the point where a woman (sometimes all women) are abusing and killing men with their bare hands willy-nilly, then the story often starts slipping.  One hallmark of a good story, is when the storyteller is writing about what he/she knows.  I strongly suspect that at least some of the gore stories and man beating stories are not written by people who are intimately familiar with having lost a fight to a vindictive opponent, and/or have not had close encounters in space and time to a body being violently killed. 

I've rambled on for way longer then I intended too.  Suffice to say, yes there is appeal to domination.  I don't think we should judge them on extreme examples.

[fbbsmmh]

For me it's all about power and  for reasons i don't understand the abuse of that power in any way is more appealing to me sexually.  I guess the power of life and death is the ultimate power which is why i enjoy the snuff type stories.  I also prefer stories where the main character is unstoppable, invulnerable and can do whatever she wants to whomever she wants, whenever she wants.  So that's the type of stories i write.  I am well aware that such a character limits any potential for the character to grow or the story to progress in any meaningful way, but that's okay, because i just write them to satisfy a sexual urge.  If i want a culture fix then i'll read books by better writers than me.  I think i should also mention that i think the majority of the guys who like the darker, more violent fantasies enjoy it purely as a fantasy.  I for one love the thought of a cruel, sadistic, powerful woman.  I would never want to date one though.

That's it in a nutshell for me.

[GAP]

There is some appeal to domination.  Experiencing imaginary female muscle through good written description is enough to get me hard, but then again just seeing an attractive woman does the same lol.  I normally wouldn't want to wade through 20 pages of a story, if there wasn't something in it that I wasn't experiencing in life, something that needed to be fantasized about. 

Domination might mean different things to different people.  In the context of female muscle fiction, to me, it means a strong woman demonstrating that she is in control of her man.  There is obviously the physical and sexual aspect, but I've also enjoyed stories where the man was/became emotionally dependent, financially dependent etc. on his woman also, emphasizing that she was truly the better half.

I also understand why some domination stories are getting disparaged.  If a story reaches the point where a woman (sometimes all women) are abusing and killing men with their bare hands willy-nilly, then the story often starts slipping.  One hallmark of a good story, is when the storyteller is writing about what he/she knows.  I strongly suspect that at least some of the gore stories and man beating stories are not written by people who are intimately familiar with having lost a fight to a vindictive opponent, and/or have not had close encounters in space and time to a body being violently killed. 

I've rambled on for way longer then I intended too.  Suffice to say, yes there is appeal to domination.  I don't think we should judge them on extreme examples.

I will try to do but I do understand the appeal of those that like it. I don't really like those extreme examples with gore, death, despair and destruction.

[cdefan]

For me, the most important factor is whether or not a story is well-written. If a story has no depth, it doesn't really matter whether it involves gentle domination or sadistic violence - either way, it's not going to be enjoyable. Another point that should be brought up is that a reader might be in the mood for different kinds of stories at different times. It's kind of like food - one day you might feel like a healthy lunch, another, you'll be craving a greasy burger and fries. The same reader could prefer gentler or more violent stories, depending on their mood.

One thing that really works for me in the more violent stories are female characters who are superior to men in things that men are supposed to be stereotypically better at (hand-to-hand combat, weapons skills, brute strength, speed, etc.), but at the same time are true, feminine women and not just characters that seem like they were originally written as men and just turned by the author into women as an afterthought. I do understand why many readers might dislike stories with a lot of sadism and gore, because when they're not well thought out, they can be really bad. The flip side of that is that a well-written violent story starring a female muscle babe can be really fun. I think hero141's stories are a great example of the good ones - I love Bethany and Denise. You've got to love a female bodybuilder who can outfight, outlift, and outshoot any man, but who is also as pretty as a model, as curvaceous as a porn star, and as graceful as a gymnast.