Nataliya Kuznetsova (Trukhina) Amazonka

[birmi482]

She was the talk of the show, the absolute showstopper.....and she expected to win. For her placing second was like placing last. She was extremely disappointed and vented her anger on her insta page. So "smart" for her means only winning. She thought before the show that she singlehandedly could change the judges view, but unfortunately she did not suceed. So she is gonna go to "if you fant beat them join tgem". That is my guess

[h666666]

I think there's a false dichotomy being presented here. It's as if she could chose to either be massive or ripped, and it would be a pity to go for ripped because her mass is her best feature. However, I think what she needs to do is to properly learn contest prep so that she doesn't get on stage in a flat and depleted condition, with no definition in her back, which is what she did this year. Yes, I believe she can tweak her methods and manage to be both bigger and more ripped at the same time. Sure, it's somewhat unlikely that she'd ever become famous for being super ripped, although it's not out of the question.

I'm old enough to remember the early hype surrounding Aleesha Young over a decade ago. Fans were praising her muscle mass, but I was unimpressed: she always looked super soft at contests, and I didn't see her ever turning pro. In 2008, she placed 15th at the Nationals. She was huge, but very soft. Over the next few years, she came in various kinds of shape: smaller but slightly harder, bigger but softer, smaller and softer, etc. In 2011, she had okay size with mediocre conditioning (I'd say her 2011 conditioning was similar to how Nataliya looked in Bucharest this year), and she placed eighth at the Nationals. Then she took a break from competing, and returned in 2014. She was huge and ripped, and won heavyweight and overall, turning pro. She somehow just figured it out, and she's been unstoppable ever since.

I think Nataliya has to go through a similar learning experience before she can present her best form on stage. I've seen her on webcam where she looked literally unbelievably massive, way bigger than I could have imagined a FBB to ever become even just three years ago… and she was vascular, full, and hard. Sure, some body parts were softer (notably the back), but what we saw on stage was a much-diminished version of her. She's not anywhere close to her true potential, and once she nails her contest preparation, we will see a true miracle.

If you don't believe me, just look up the old contest pics of Aleesha, and check out her transformation between 2008 and 2014 for yourself. It was truly remarkable. And yes, she became both bigger and way more ripped at the same time, and she'd already been a mass monster before.

Nataliya should be the new Aleesha. She's not there yet. Sure, we can all blame the judges, and get bogged down in mass vs. conditioning arguments, but I think they are futile. Nataliya should be able to have enough of both. And honestly, were she just a little bit harder while retaining her huge, ballooning, round muscle bellies (that looked pretty flat for her on stage this time around), it's difficult to see how anyone could ever beat her. She could enter men's contests and win.

[birmi482]

I wish you were right. I think all Nataliya fans want her to see her maintaining her muscle mass while being possibly more ripped. But your comparidon with Aleesha has a flaw because it stops in 2014. And no, Aleesha has not been unstoppable since. She thought if quitting FBB in 2016 when a judge told her to loose up to 20 pounds in order to have a real chance to win. When she won this year in Chicago, she completely sized down. There is a VOD clip of her on HBC training in a gym just around the Chicago competition. She has never looked do small, her trademark biceps who usually look full and round with a peak, look completely deflated, almost physique size. This is what happens when judges continue their line that conditioning is all. And by the way, at Phoenix this year Aleesha had gained size again and promptly placed only 8th. So sorry, for Nataliya to have a chance to win, she will probably have become much more shredded AT THE EXPENSE of muscle mass. Because if she has both, huge muscle mass and shreddedness, she should really compete with man because at women competition she would never have a chance since the IFBB does not want FBB look even close to male BB

[PatchAu7]

Thanks for your illuminating opinion h666666.  It gets scouring and knocking out that Choobaka argument-agreement saying "Mass Vs Line", really.
You remember a Kim, Kim C.H.I.Z.E.V.S.K.Y. right? The more Kim gained volume, the more she took definition, veins, staggering streaks. So Kim became Miss O. and the more she continued in this way, the more she won the supreme title! Until then, a fateful date. It is the fear of the cop (judge) that brought down this trend, far from questioning the possibility of having a complete Miss Olympia combining HYPERMASS & conditioning!!
Amazonka must not go astray and has the shoulders to. She will win by staying straight in her huge muscles. And in men competitions, what's going on?
In any case, exceeded a certain critical mass, the goal is not to take even more mass in off season, but to keep it in competition to shear it thoroughly so that the detail is expressed.
Iris herself (and not just her) says that there was no big gap between her contest weight and her off-season weight. This is the case of many champions who have reached this critical mass and who no longer have to do the yoyo with their body weight. This is the benefit of the experience! to good hearing though very repetitive and not so attentive and open as that.

[birmi482]

We can continue to debate how Nataliya needs to look in order to win, but unfortunately current facts speak for themselves. Just look at the last two Rising Phoenix winners, Alina and Helle, they never looked so lean, so conditioned, but they also never had so little muscle mass - and they promptly won against or more muscular, more massive and decently ripped Margie. And these two, Alina and Helle are the ones who should know, given their involvement with WOS, especially Alina. So as much as you compare Nataliya to Aleesha or Kim, fact is that at the turn to the 20s in this millenium, judging goes into a very particular direction. Whether we like it or not, facts speak for themselves

[ravi777]

Maybe we did not consider that Different Women's bodies react Differently. Some may gain Both Muscle Mass and Definition at the same time. For others it maybe a Question of Muscle Mass Versus Definition (Mutual Exclusion). Maybe for Nataliya the 2 are Mutually Exclusive. Just a guess.

[ravi777]

BTW., the Only other FBB to match Nataliya in Size - Robin Hillis came Last. So maybe Birmi482 got a point.

[birmi482]

Yes, this was a real disappointment though Robin lost a lot of muscle mass just before the competition ("carbon loading"), similarily to Lisa Cross. These two looked unbelievably shredded and massive two weeks before the competition, but during the last two weeks something went awfully wrong. By the way, two weeks after the competition, Robin almost outsized Nataliya at the event in Paris

[PatchAu7]

You really think Helle and Alina are so unmassive! I don't think there's such a big difference in weight between Alina WOS Champion and Alina Runner Up of Miss Olympia... or, at the limit, a few phantom kilos that migrated from the back and shoulders to the chest, "another weight distribution" would be the most appropriate term, albeit highlighting a less "natural" method, thus responding to other 'imposed' aesthetic criteria. Helle does not seem to say that she has lost weight to get there, on the contrary says she has improved it, hardened it.   I may not understand everything Helle is saying, but watching the two shows of 2019, she seems to me to be one of the most massive - if not the most - and compared to other behemoths (Irene, Monique,...) does not appear anorexic. I don't know what to do. Tell them. In fact, the arrival of Nataliya will push everyone to other "entrenchments" and is so dreaded by pushing Her Muscle Highnesses "to the limits" as the Reference and mythical Bev Francis liked to say. Would that meet the criteria: is that the problem? In truth, we could witness the fights of Davida and Goliatha, pure moments of pure sport where the small 1 meter 65 for 80 kilos - because that is where their chalenge is located - could defeat the colossus of 1 m 71 per 100 kilos that everyone sees gain. Well, because on a few details "well placed" or thanks to a sumptuous choreography, the "smallest" could snag points and get ahead on the Thread Goliatha. Or the opposite: "Decidedly very massive, Amazonka was able to show invisible details visible, buttocks and back striated like never before. And what a slim waist, what a smiling face and what a posing!"
From the True Female Bodybuilding of the very high level what we all expect, we true amateur-lovers, right?
If she is not disillusioned or sick, I think Alina will not delineate her turn for hand over cutlery. I agree, she was maybe bigger, but really not by much, at her last Olympia. But the arrival of Amazonka should motivate her to arrive even more huge, which she is capable of, review her past clips out of competition where she displayed a definition worthy of competition.
By the way, for Helle, I'm not saying she was 80 kilos this year, but she shouldn't be far off. I claim she can reach them, hard, in competition, if she knows she has to face Amazonka in 2020.
For Alina, she has already passed 90 kilos ooff season, so…
Nataliya also has this role: to push the Queens of Muscle Hardcore towards "Other Limits".

[birmi482]

As much as I like to agree. 80 kilos is around 180 pounds, Helle weighed around 167 pounds, thats around 76 kilos. Alina looked changed since she made implants since the Miss Olympia, but the difference between Wos 2018 to Ms Olympia 2014 was visible. Irene is a huge girl by herself, see her offseason pics, but at competitions she looks really sized down, her arms almost looking thin. I compared her competition pics from 2011 to 2018/9, the difference is very visible in terms of muscle mass. The appearance of Nataliya onstage starting last year has really been disruptive and caused a lot of online noise as well as in Romania itself. But I highly doubt that her appearance will change the line of IFBB judges

[PatchAu7]

Nataliya appearance has not to change the line of IFBB judges but the line - in both senses of the word - of the other competitors.
If all the girls - including the stars who are just waiting for this - all come in very ripped condition - as the judges want - but with an additional substantial mass, they will be in front the accomplished fact and the Line will in fact be imposed on them.
Not too big for the world !
As far as Irene is concerned, I don't feel the same way as you do. In Phoenix, she seems to me to be one of the best of her long career, although I admit that her ranking is probably the result of subsequent bad faith judgments. I mean, she merites it, but there is a part of "justice" compensatory, since she will certainly soon retire. In any case, they were able to reward her impressive stature, you see, that's a beginning. 

[PatchAu7]

Nataliya appearance has not to change the line of IFBB judges but the line - in both senses of the word - of the other competitors.
If all the girls - including the stars who are just waiting for this - all come in very ripped condition - as the judges want - but with an additional substantial mass, they will be in front the accomplished fact and the Line will in fact be imposed on them.
Not too big for the world !

Amazonka is the Trojan Horse.

[birmi482]

You think that Amazonka will make the other girls change and become more massive while keeping the same level of shreddedness? This can only happen if Nataliya starts to win Pro shows. She has been known to other FBB since 2015 when she really burst online, but they saw her personally only in 2018 and 2019 at FIBO and in Romania. She clearly stole the show at both events, she has more insta fans than most of the other girls together have!! But i don't think that this had an effect on other girls so far. Monique and Robin, the other two big girls, may profit from this, since they are naturally very tall/big, at least 5cm taller than Nataliya, but i really doubt that the other girls will gear up unless she really becomes the focal point of FBB in a similar way like Shanique in WPD. But this has not happened so far.

[ravi777]

Nataliya appearance has not to change the line of IFBB judges but the line - in both senses of the word - of the other competitors.
If all the girls - including the stars who are just waiting for this - all come in very ripped condition - as the judges want - but with an additional substantial mass, they will be in front the accomplished fact and the Line will in fact be imposed on them.
Not too big for the world !

Amazonka is the Trojan Horse.

I Re-Iterate my comments many Days Ago. Amazonka Shook the FBB World in 2018 Romania by posing for a few Photos Dwarfing many other Big FBBs.
I am Sure that SHE (Amazonka) is what Spurred the IFBB to Bring Back Olympia FBB again in 2020, so that they can keep it under control !!!!!!!

[birmi482]

Honestly ravi i don't think so. WOS had done some real tremendous work, the co-sponsor the IFBB. Nataliya had a huge effect on the general public popularity, being the first true global FBB icon on online media. She has surely caused a lot of interest and curiosity, but she is no way mainstream, in some way she is an outsider or some kind of peril to mainstream girls like Helle, Theresa Ivancik, Sarah Jacobs, Alina etc. As popular as Nataliya is with fans, she is not mainstream which is what the IFBB is looking for