Team Herbiceps

[deerfott]

The reality is that there's no great pool of custom coders who can fine-tune the product we're seeking.

This is completely false. There are literally thousands of freelance coders that could rebuild your site. As calico57 mentioned, it's simply a matter of placing an ad. It seems oblivious to ask if it's truly that difficult to find web designers, how were you able to create teamherbiceps.com?

And like calico57 said, if enough people stopped visiting your site, no doubt a resign would happen in short order.

We don't run to social media or the forums to lament any issues we've had with development because 1) no one cares and 2) no one cares.

Again, false. There was a post here or on the HB forum by someone involved with HBC complaining losing money after failed attempt to resign the site. It was basically another excuse for not getting anything done.

And there are many people that "care," they are your customers. Many have commented on the issues with HBC (outdated interface, poor webcam quality, etc.), but as always, they are ignored.

My reference to the "free market" was with respect to the TeamHB models. Back in 2005, doing TeamHB would have been a no-brainer.  In 2015, however, with so much of the market having shifted, producing a site like this is extremely risky for several reasons.  How much day-in-the-life content do customers want of a single model? You're saying that we're taking away what would have been free and charging for it, but most models will never make anything from what they post.  Besides, look at the sheer volume of content that's still out there on social media. You may disagree, but that plethora of free content represents a huge amount of competition for not only the TeamHB paysite, but also for every other physique modeling paysite.

I don't see how any of this is relevant. Whether it's "risky" or there is "a huge amount of competition" is not the customer's concern. What customers are interested in is a quality product, which is why there is such a push to improve HBC. But instead of improving an existing product, you create way to insert yourself into something that was previously free (social media) and try to monetize it.

In general, people don't post on social media excepting to make money, so I don't see why it would be any different for muscle / fitness models.

The bottom line is you didn't address any of the issues the customers are actually concerned with (again, the outdated interface, terrible webcam quality, etc.) as usual.

[deerfott]

They send cameras for each of the models mike explained all this to me.

If this is true, why don't they send quality (HD) webcams to the models on HBC?

[FemFlexUSA]

man, what happened with your Killer Crushes  project ? is it dead again

Life support!

We've got a terrific new release coming out today or tomorrow, though.

[FemFlexUSA]

Go to any CS department at a UC (or anywhere else really) and put an ad on the wall for $20/hour to fix up the website. You'll get tons of coders applying and once you weed out the few who wouldn't feel comfortable coding for a porn site, your problems will be solved in a week.

If people weren't spending money anyway, you'd be doing whatever you can to solve the problem.

I wish it were as simple as that. There are coding geniuses out there who could certainly figure out the issues and upgrade the existing platform to what our customers want, but as it stands, we have yet to find that person or persons. The architecture is suited to serve itself. That is, many programmers will write code that only they can work with. We have hundreds and hundreds of hours invested in the site renovation we've been working on for years. On more than one occasion, they attempted to deliver to us a final product that fell well below even minimum expectations. We've also attempted many times to find coders who were capable of a rewrite, but none have been able to make any headway.

That doesn't mean we are ever going to give up, but I wish customers understood that there is no ready-made platform we can just walk into a store and purchase. All of the world's premier webcam sites were built from the ground up and most of the programmers also have an ownership stake in the sites they built and maintain, so we do not have the ability to hire them to develop ours.

[FemFlexUSA]

I have heard about the O after events, sounds like an excellent occasion.

How do you announce the HBC dinners, and how to get the entry ticket for it?

Also, have you heard of an event couple of years ago: I do not remember the company/website who ran it, but it was a holiday in Jamaica for athletes and fans, staying together under one roof. Fans could take part in foto shoots, there was dinner events etc,. The price was reasonable as far as I recall, and considering there was a range of great athletes on board. I was on the list but then had to cancel due to a business trip.

Its a pitty events like that happen in such a small number.

Previously, we used online forums to announce our open events. Nowadays, we just make casual mentions on Facebook, etc. sometimes encouraging fans to drop by for a drink if they happen to be in town. Our next 2 megashoots - this week's Muscle Mansion and the Olympia - are going to be jam-packed, however, so as of right now, it could be 2016 before we have another open event.  We're very excited about several upcoming changes, so I'm hoping that we'll be able to have a lot more opportunities to give back a bit to those who've been so loyal to us over the years.

I don't think we'll make it to Jamaica, but it seems every May that a member of the HBC gets married in Hawaii, so that might be a strong possibility.

[FemFlexUSA]

This is completely false. There are literally thousands of freelance coders that could rebuild your site. As calico57 mentioned, it's simply a matter of placing an ad. It seems oblivious to ask if it's truly that difficult to find web designers, how were you able to create teamherbiceps.com?

If, on a scale of 1-100, TeamHB is a 1, then HBC is smashing through 100 in terms of complexity.  Designers are practically a dime-a-dozen. We could easily get someone to put a new coat of paint on HBC. But to re-tool the engine?  That's like comparing a child's wagon to an automobile. Both may roll, but aren't close to being the same thing.

We don't run to social media or the forums to lament any issues we've had with development because 1) no one cares and 2) no one cares.

Again, false. There was a post here or on the HB forum by someone involved with HBC complaining losing money after failed attempt to resign the site. It was basically another excuse for not getting anything done.

And there are many people that "care," they are your customers. Many have commented on the issues with HBC (outdated interface, poor webcam quality, etc.), but as always, they are ignored.

Even in my post above - which is the first time I recall talking openly about development issues - I don't go into any of the specifics. Whether you can appreciate the difference or not, there *is* a difference between a customer telling us what they don't like about the site and us telling visitors what we don't like and going into details about what has gone wrong in various stages of attempting to improve the site.  No one wants to read whining or complaining from Mike or me.

To put it bluntly, "excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse".  Customers want a better product, not a detailed outline of why they're not getting it (yet).

[deerfott]

I wish it were as simple as that. There are coding geniuses out there who could certainly figure out the issues and upgrade the existing platform to what our customers want, but as it stands, we have yet to find that person or persons. The architecture is suited to serve itself. That is, many programmers will write code that only they can work with. We have hundreds and hundreds of hours invested in the site renovation we've been working on for years. On more than one occasion, they attempted to deliver to us a final product that fell well below even minimum expectations. We've also attempted many times to find coders who were capable of a rewrite, but none have been able to make any headway.

That doesn't mean we are ever going to give up, but I wish customers understood that there is no ready-made platform we can just walk into a store and purchase. All of the world's premier webcam sites were built from the ground up and most of the programmers also have an ownership stake in the sites they built and maintain, so we do not have the ability to hire them to develop ours.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of camsites currently online, but you continually speak as if HBC is somehow a unique concept that requires "coding geniuses" to improve it.  This is of course ridiculous. It's no more challenging than any other camsite.

And how is it possible that "hundreds and hundreds of hours" where spent on "site renovation" when there are no "coding geniuses" available? More importantly, what are these so-called renovations? HBC still looks as if it hasn't been updated in since the late 90's.

Also, are we to believe that you hired people to create new site designs, but you rejected them because they didn't meet you standard? That is laughable. So either you were able to find designers to work on spec, which no designer would ever do, or you rejected their work outright and just took the financial lost. That makes no sense, of course. Obliviously, they would have continued to work it until the site met with your satisfaction like any other work-related project. But this would imply that anything you said actually happened, which seems doubtful.

And it makes no sense that programmers that build camsites would have a "stake" in them when that's not true of other sites they design. It makes a nice excuse for able not being find programmers, though. In the end, I suspect it simpliy comes down to unwillingness to spend the money to build/update your site.

[deerfott]

If, on a scale of 1-100, TeamHB is a 1, then HBC is smashing through 100 in terms of complexity.  Designers are practically a dime-a-dozen. We could easily get someone to put a new coat of paint on HBC. But to re-tool the engine?  That's like comparing a child's wagon to an automobile. Both may roll, but aren't close to being the same thing.

Completely false.  Again, here are many, many other camsites and HBC is no more complex than any of the rest.

To put it bluntly, "excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse".  Customers want a better product, not a detailed outline of why they're not getting it (yet).

It seems all you do is make excuses or talk around issues, and the fact you are so unaware this is hard to believe. Yes, your customers want a "better product," so stop making excuses and give them one. Enough of the "thing are in the works" nonsense. You are like a politician that just keep repeating the same thing over and over, regardless how ridiculous it is, thinking people will eventually believe it.

And as usual, you completely ignore the issue of poor picture quality, which the biggest problem with HBC. By far, this is the number one complaint. The analogy of a restaurant comes to mind. If customers were complaining about the quality of the hamburgers, a good owner would start using better a cut meat. Well, customers have been complaining about the picture quality on HBC for years, but you done nothing to address the issue.

There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't require all models start using HD webcams. This is something that could be done immediately and would greatly improve the overall the camming experience. That beng said, I look forward to hearing the reasons (excuses) why it can't done. No doubt, you will come up with a few.

[FemFlexUSA]

Completely false.  Again, here are many, many other camsites and HBC is no more complex than any of the rest.

The architecture of cam sites vs member sites is completely different. Anyone who would say otherwise either doesn't know what he's talking about or has deliberately misled you into believing that.

There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't require all models start using HD webcams. This is something that could be done immediately and would greatly improve the overall the camming experience. That beng said, I look forward to hearing the reasons (excuses) why it can't done. No doubt, you will come up with a few.

Many performers do use HD webcams, but the system determines the optimum resolution based on the speed of the feed. The faster the provider's connection, the higher the quality of the transmission.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of camsites currently online, but you continually speak as if HBC is somehow a unique concept that requires "coding geniuses" to improve it.  This is of course ridiculous. It's no more challenging than any other camsite.

And how is it possible that "hundreds and hundreds of hours" where spent on "site renovation" when there are no "coding geniuses" available? More importantly, what are these so-called renovations? HBC still looks as if it hasn't been updated in since the late 90's.

Also, are we to believe that you hired people to create new site designs, but you rejected them because they didn't meet you standard? That is laughable. So either you were able to find designers to work on spec, which no designer would ever do, or you rejected their work outright and just took the financial lost. That makes no sense, of course. Obliviously, they would have continued to work it until the site met with your satisfaction like any other work-related project. But this would imply that anything you said actually happened, which seems doubtful.

And it makes no sense that programmers that build camsites would have a "stake" in them when that's not true of other sites they design. It makes a nice excuse for able not being find programmers, though. In the end, I suspect it simpliy comes down to unwillingness to spend the money to build/update your site.

You don't understand the webcam business. Web design and programming (coding) are completely different things. If you want an off-the-shelf product, you get our current main platform, minus a few of the tweaks we had them develop. If you will contact the world's biggest cam sites (streammate, LiveJasmin, etc), you will discover that they are ALL partially owned by the original programmers. It does make sense, because their webcam sites bring in more revenue than other revenue sites they develop for people. The principals do not want their intellectual property walking out the door where it might BENEFIT POTENTIAL COMPETITORS.  It's just good business on their part to give a percentage to the developers.

And yes, we've taken losses, because we were dissatisfied with their results.  The product we paid to develop (from start to finish) is available from the company that built it.  The video quality was improved, but the performer interface was far too cumbersome. Anyone can purchase a license to use it and newcomers to the business may find it viable. We did not. If, after YEARS (not a misprint) of working with someone on a project that should've been completed in 6-8 months, they still fail to deliver despite saying that they have finished and met all our specs (easily disproven in a 15-minute beta test), would you continue spending money on that venture?

[deerfott]

The architecture of cam sites vs member sites is completely different. Anyone who would say otherwise either doesn't know what he's talking about or has deliberately misled you into believing that.

I said that HBC is no more complex than any other cam site, so I have no idea why you are mentioning member sites.

Many performers do use HD webcams, but the system determines the optimum resolution based on the speed of the feed. The faster the provider's connection, the higher the quality of the transmission.

Again, require ALL models use HD cam. Not "many," but all. Why is that so difficult to understand?

If the resolution is based on speed, then require all models have a minimum speed if they are going to use the site. It's ridiculous you wouldn't make that a requirement from the beginning. And why is it the resolution is so poor on HBC, but when the same model uses Skype the picture is suddenly crystal clear?

[Karharot]

man ...it`s from the guys from herbiceps...
same guys who at the moment post videos from 2013 and 2014, but not from their 2015 shootings
....you have to understand ...these guys don`t give a FUCK for the members of their websites...

[Roland B]

man ...it`s from the guys from herbiceps...
same guys who at the moment post videos from 2013 and 2014, but not from their 2015 shootings
....you have to understand ...these guys don`t give a FUCK for the members of their websites...

Exactly.  They don't give a fuck about their models either.  There are many other sites that I choose to support.

[FemFlexUSA]

I said that HBC is no more complex than any other cam site, so I have no idea why you are mentioning member sites.

Your earlier question was:

It seems oblivious to ask if it's truly that difficult to find web designers, how were you able to create teamherbiceps.com?

I thought you were suggesting that our ability to build teamherbiceps indicated that we *could have* also done a better rebuild of HBC using the same design team (or coders of similar ability).  It's possible that I read you wrong. If so, my bad, as my answer was based upon the way your query was presented, taking into account the general context in this ongoing conversation.

Again, require ALL models use HD cam. Not "many," but all. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Most probably do have HD webcams. In response to your suggestion, I did a quick product search, and it seems the cams "most likely to be purchased" by performers since 2009 have been HD.

If the resolution is based on speed, then require all models have a minimum speed if they are going to use the site. It's ridiculous you wouldn't make that a requirement from the beginning.

I am not going into a detailed presentation of the data, but I am going to tell you that saying a webcam company has a "required minimum speed" is pretty meaningless when it comes to conversations about bandwidth. Bandwidth doesn't operate the way you're suggesting that it operates. Believe me, we - along with every other company out there who relies on it - *wish* that bandwidth operated the way you're suggesting. 

And why is it the resolution is so poor on HBC, but when the same model uses Skype the picture is suddenly crystal clear?

Skype has superior technology at their disposal. We've learned a few things from them, but I'd be remiss if I attempted to predict how soon the HBC feed will be as good as Skype's is in 2015.

[FemFlexUSA]

man ...it`s from the guys from herbiceps...
same guys who at the moment post videos from 2013 and 2014, but not from their 2015 shootings
....you have to understand ...these guys don`t give a FUCK for the members of their websites...

I'm not seeking a pat on the back at all, but when you combine all our properties, I suspect you'll find that the amount of content we've published in 2015 ranks right up there with the most prolific sites in our industry.  Not everything we do is a hit, but I believe for the most part that we've generally given a pretty fair value to our customers over the years.  Not everyone's experience will reflect that viewpoint, but in the instances when we've fallen short, I know efforts have been made to make it up to those who've given us their hard-earned money for an entertainment product. 

[jarvis]

What u said  .